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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Mar Sun 04, 2018 5:18 pm 
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Location: Katy, Texas
Duane,
Have you seen any this early or earlier claiming to go as high (or low in 20s speak) as 15 meters?

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Mar Sun 04, 2018 6:04 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 822
Location: Utah 84065
15 meters is equal to 20 Mhz. I don't think the radio you have is capable of going that high. For one thing, the tuning capacitors have too much capacitance. It will be interesting to see what you can do with it when you get it working. I know the front panel on your set has a switch that goes between short and long, but does one of your coils specify that it is for 15 meters? The shortest wavelength superhet radio that I was aware of (50 meters, from the 1924-25 time frame) was the Leutz Navy Model C-10. It had plug in coils, but it was still limited by large tuning capacitors (and 01-A tubes).

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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Mar Sun 04, 2018 9:28 pm 
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Location: Katy, Texas
Duane B wrote:
... but does one of your coils specify that it is for 15 meters


Yes Duane there are two coils that are switched between. One coil is labeled "Oscillator Coupler", the other is labeled "Shortwave Oscillator Coupler". If you look at the add I posted just below the pictures in original post you will see that for $5 extra you will get a "Special Hilco Shorwave coupler with a range of 15 to 600 meters".

However I think that is advertising typo and as printed in this 1927 ad (when the kit had been dumped no doubt to a closeout store) the ad says 200-15 meters which makes more sense.

I'll restate that I am very skeptical that the set could actually achieve acceptable performance at those high frequencies but at least that is what AE Hill was claiming. It may be a clue that this radio has an extra 8th tube on the front end in a brown tube socket vs the other 7 that are in black sockets.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Mar Sun 04, 2018 10:45 pm 
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Location: Hollywood, Maryland
Well I am lost because two ads that are posted here said 190 - 600 meters, and shows six coils in the kit which would imply that short wave coil is included. Another ad here said 90 - 600 meters, and now one that says 15 meters! Had never seen one. Thank you for the pictures.

David


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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Mar Sun 04, 2018 10:55 pm 
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Location: Utah 84065
It looks like the tube in the brown socket is an RF amplifier for the loop (jack in back) and the tuning capacitor on the left front of the panel. It looks like it would use this loop amplifying tube whether using the normal oscillator coupler or the shortwave oscillator coupler. This means that one tube would have to amplify all frequencies from 500 kHz to 20 Mhz. That is a very broad range. One way you could do a simple test is to measure the frequency range of the shortwave oscillator coupler. It should oscillate up near 20 MHz if the set is going to receive that high.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not cutting down your radio. I think you have a wonderful set. I just don't think it will receive up to 20 mHz.

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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Mar Sun 04, 2018 11:52 pm 
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Location: Katy, Texas
David Willenborg wrote:
Well I am lost because two ads that are posted here said 190 - 600 meters, and shows six coils in the kit which would imply that short wave coil is included. Another ad here said 90 - 600 meters, and now one that says 15 meters! Had never seen one. Thank you for the pictures.

David


They also indicate that the set can be found in the November edition of the Citizen's Radio Callbook. I can find no evidence of that. It all very strange.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Mar Sun 04, 2018 11:55 pm 
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Joined: Jun Wed 21, 2006 1:56 am
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Location: Katy, Texas
Duane B wrote:
Don't get me wrong. I'm not cutting down your radio. I think you have a wonderful set. I just don't think it will receive up to 20 mHz.


No worries Duane. I didn't build it :). I actually agree with you. Even the Tomfoolery that went on back then is part of the history of radio. It might actually be considered the first "allwave" superhet otherwise. I kinda doubt it.


Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Mar Mon 05, 2018 7:23 pm 
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Location: Utah 84065
Steve, I think your set may work on the Ultradyne modulation principle. The tube in the brown socket is the 1st detector and the tube next to it is the oscillator. It looks like the 1st detector tube gets its plate supply from the grid of the oscillator via the primary of the 1st IF transformer.

What does the switch on the front panel labeled "condenser" do? Does it connect a capacitor in series with one of the main tuning capacitors? If so it could increase the frequency range of the tuning capacitor.

Very interesting circuit for sure! I'd like to know more about it.

Super Hilco-Dyne . . . Hmmm . . . sounds like something out of a monster movie :D

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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Mar Mon 05, 2018 9:54 pm 
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Location: Katy, Texas
Duane,
I also thought it might switch the capacitor in series but it doesn't. I'll have to draw out the schematic at some point but that will have wait for another day as its resting in its home on a top shelf at this point. it is a bit scary with that band switcher in the middle of the circuit :).

Finding a 32 inch wide cabinet for it isn't going to be easy and i'll probably put off the restoration work until i do.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Apr Sat 14, 2018 4:45 pm 
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Location: Keystone Heights, FL, USA
As we all know, one isn't enough. Another Ultradyne L2 popped up on ebay and I could not resist. It is missing both audio transformers but had a nice looking cabinet and I am guessing a factory front panel. I installed 1 transformer and repaired a bunch of broken solder joints.

After tracking down all the broken connections it works fine, is very loud, so I decided to just leave the second audio transformer out. I can see where it could have been used with no audio amp at all. On strong stations (and I mean WSM at night here in north central Florida) it will drive a speaker off of the detector directly. The sound is exceptional when tuned just so.

I will probably keep this one and sell the other one with no cabinet.

Jeff

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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Apr Sat 14, 2018 11:48 pm 
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Very nice Ultradyne L-2 but it does not use all of the recommended Lacault components, which doesn't matter, but gets me to the next point, the front panel. I have never seen that type of panel sold buy Phenix Radio Corp., but that panel makes your radio standout from the others.

Looks like the builder purchased the basic L-2 kit from Phenix which included IF's and Coil, and then picked out the other items to build the radio. The dials are Lacault units made by Hammarlund, th tuning comndersers look also to be the recommended ones. Tube sockets and the audio transformer is not. The Bradley rheostat is a modification from the plans.

Thank you for sharing,

David W.


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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Apr Sun 15, 2018 2:22 am 
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Location: Utah 84065
Yes, that is a strange panel. It is hard to see the Ultradyne engraving because of the swirling pattern. Is the swirling pattern original, or was it done sometime later?
The Ultradyne engraving is unusual also, because it does not indicate Model L-2. Most of the Model L-2's indicate it so when they have the engraved panel.
I think you have a nice Ultradyne, and you got it for a good price.
I missed that one on eBay.

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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Apr Sun 15, 2018 4:07 pm 
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Location: Keystone Heights, FL, USA
The pattern on the panel is molded into the surface, sort of overlapping star-burst patterns. Here is a close-up. The Ultradyne logo looks to be the same as is seen in some of their later advertising. I had for a while a home-brew TRF that had a front panel like that, only it was black, not brown like this one.

The Bradley is a Bradley-leak, adjustable grid leak. It seems to work best set at about 1M ohm.

Yes, the audio transformer is not original, I just put that one in there myself. Phillips screw is incorrect but all I had at the time. It had no screws when I got it.
For the record, I paid $90.00 for it.

Jeff

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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Apr Sun 15, 2018 4:55 pm 
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Location: Utah 84065
jrehkopf wrote:
The Ultradyne logo looks to be the same as is seen in some of their later advertising.


I have seen that logo before on other Model L-2's, but I always asumed that it was an earlier logo than the one that also indicates "Model L-2." Maybe David can clarify that. David is the Ultradyne guru. It looks like the pattern is original to me. Very unusual.

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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Apr Sun 15, 2018 5:42 pm 
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The logo appears to be the one used in the Ultradyne construction manual and ads. The illustrations in the manual show the radio with the earlier suggested dials, and without the L-2 as part of the panel engraving design. I have three L-2 panels here, and all three have L-2 in the design, and I consider it the most common engraved panel seen today. I can not tell you which panels were sold by Phenix Radio, but I can say that examples of the L-2 that I have seen, and which used all the correct internal components, used the panel with the L-2, and have had the same cabinet.

Your radio does not have the recommended tube sockets, and we have no idea as to what audio transformers were used. Your cabinet looks like the one used for the Ultradyne L-1, having the same same flat strip of wood along the top, directly over the panel. The common L-2 cabinet allows for removing the radio by just lifting it out, not pulling it out from the front. There were a lot of sources to get engraved panels, and cabinets, so there was a wide range of options for the builder. I would not consider one more correct, just different. What matters to me is how it is hooked up, does it have the correct parts, and does it have any extra holes in the front panel.

This is what my three L-2 panels look like. I think the gold fill is original and correct. Your panel also uses gold fill. Two of my panels are gold, and one has white fill. The second picture is the design on my Ultradyne L-1.


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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: May Sun 13, 2018 2:21 am 
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A new addition to the superhet collection. I know that Remlers are common but I didn't have one. This one I picked up at the Kutztown meet, and a big thank you to Mark who sold it to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: May Sun 13, 2018 3:49 am 
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Nice looking Remler! Thanks for sharing the photos.

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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: May Mon 14, 2018 11:38 am 
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Seeing all these superhets almost makes me want to get one myself, but alas I have no actual space for one.


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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: May Mon 14, 2018 4:05 pm 
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Tube Radio wrote:
Seeing all these superhets almost makes me want to get one myself, but alas I have no actual space for one.


Too bad, how about one that's 80 inches long? :)
http://radioheaven.homestead.com/Leutz_L.html


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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: May Mon 14, 2018 4:59 pm 
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Ron in Radio Heaven wrote:
Tube Radio wrote:
Seeing all these superhets almost makes me want to get one myself, but alas I have no actual space for one.


Too bad, how about one that's 80 inches long? :)
http://radioheaven.homestead.com/Leutz_L.html


Now that's something more along the lines of what I would want. All those knobs and dials. :mrgreen:

I suppose that tuning that thing was quite interesting.


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