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 Post subject: Re: Radio Restoration Diary 2 ( post photobucket)
PostPosted: Aug Tue 29, 2017 8:51 pm 
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Joined: Mar Sun 09, 2008 8:05 am
Posts: 476
Location: San Jose, California
bobwilson1977 wrote:
We did well. Sold about half of what we brought and met lots of new people and so that means... back to more restoration tasks.
We didn't bring any Jackson Bell sets so I imagine it must still be at the museum. Do you recall which one it was? I have to empty the garbage today so if you can let me know I can see if its still there.


Bob, it was lot #153 from the auction: circa 1930 Jackson-Bell 62 with a sunburst speaker grill. My mother says she misses the sound of an AM radio playing somewhere in her house even if it is just news so I was thinking of getting one for her birthday. At the least, I'd recap everything and put an inline fuse somewhere under the chassis.

Thanks for checking if you think of it.

Chris


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 Post subject: Re: Radio Restoration Diary 2 ( post photobucket)
PostPosted: Aug Thu 31, 2017 6:35 pm 
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Joined: Dec Mon 08, 2008 8:27 pm
Posts: 8101
Location: alameda,CA
I took a few days off after the sale as I was exhausted. I am a tad weary of working on AA5's at the moment and a few consoles are on their way, which will be a nice change. But I did manage to do this guy, a early 50's Admiral. Its an OK set. Had a selenium rectifier which was replaced with a diode and 100 ohm resistor. Given a red paint job because... red was VERY popular for some reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Radio Restoration Diary 2 ( post photobucket)
PostPosted: Sep Sat 02, 2017 12:17 am 
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Joined: Dec Mon 08, 2008 8:27 pm
Posts: 8101
Location: alameda,CA
A few more sets done today. It was HOT outside and a few of these sets had cracks and whatnot, thus ideal for a day of painting.

1: A small FM-only Zenith. Not much to it but boy does FM work really well! New caps and a cord
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2: A nice, original condition Emerson. The bakelite was in great shape. Only some car wax and it shines like a mirror.
New caps, cord and a bad 12SA7
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3: Very plain-jane RCA AA5. It had a burnt resistor that was touching the chassis. Someone had been in there before so I assume that was when that happened. Otherwise new caps, cord, custom paint. Yellow was the MOST popular color last weekend for some reason.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Radio Restoration Diary 2 ( post photobucket)
PostPosted: Sep Tue 05, 2017 2:53 am 
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Joined: Jan Mon 18, 2010 2:13 am
Posts: 15371
Location: Dayton Ohio
That FM only Zenith was one of the best FM radios Zenith made at the time.
I've seen articles to adapt it with an line-level output to connect it to an AM or AM/SW only console to use it as a tuner.

-Steve

_________________
Radio Interests
-Zenith
-Sparton
-Pre-War FM
Consoles and floor models, the bigger, the better!


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 Post subject: Re: Radio Restoration Diary 2 ( post photobucket)
PostPosted: Sep Tue 05, 2017 7:09 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 4859
Location: 253 Blanche St. Plymouth, MI USA
Bob, that red-orange Motorola is the right color, I have one too , its a weird red for sure. I also have that one in brown, green and yellow. I think they also made painted black. They are all painted except for the raw Bakelite one is brown of course.

Now, you wrote:
"But for others that a line in is added this is what is done. Yes- these are mostly hot chassis sets. No, the chassis is NOT pure ground in most cases because ground usually goes through a cap. But standards back then were not at all to par with today's safety standards. The permissible level of leakage for a modern portable device like an iPhone is 750uA. For hospital grade equipment its 250uA. For these AA5 sets adding a .01uF cap that leakage level is down to 450uA. So the impedance is very low.

One .01uF cap goes to middle tap of the vol. control, the other to chassis floating ground, the other side of the pot. Then the 3rd leg of the vol pot for the RF section has a switch added in so that the radio section can be turned on and off as to not pollute to incoming signal. Sure- the sound is not as great when sticking these caps in but these sets are not exactly stellar sounding anyway. "

I have a battle I fight with terminology ... and I would like to jump up on the soapbox here for minute...
Lets quit saying "Ground" when we mean CHASSIS.
Lets not say "floating ground" when we mean "B-" (B minus)

Its only GROUND when you attach to GROUND ! ("Earth" for you foreigners!)

There is NEVER , EVER a real GROUND connection to an AC-DC transformer-less radio chassis.

"Chassis" is a good term to use for things that are indeed tied to Chassis.

"B-" is what it says., it CAN also be Chassis, or not.
So just remember the 3 words ... Ground, chassis and B- are not interchangeable.

Stepping down now... and running for cover....

OH, and nice work on those radios. Beware the dreaded "Silver Mica Disease" in the smaller I-F cans, though, on those post WW2 cheapies.
Mark Oppat


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 Post subject: Re: Radio Restoration Diary 2 ( post photobucket)
PostPosted: Sep Tue 05, 2017 4:34 pm 
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Joined: Dec Mon 08, 2008 8:27 pm
Posts: 8101
Location: alameda,CA
No offense taken mark. I'm not exactly the best when it comes to definitions anyway.

Anyway... I restored a set for a friend. I will NEVER do another one of these again. Its a very tiny Zenith portable "Owl Eyes" set that will fit in the palm of your hand. There was just barely enough room to replace the old caps with new. I also needed to mount a resistor to the top of the chassis in conjunction with a new diode to replace the old selenium rectifier. It works well now but it was like doing brain surgery.
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Image


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 Post subject: Re: Radio Restoration Diary 2 ( post photobucket)
PostPosted: Sep Wed 06, 2017 6:38 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 4859
Location: 253 Blanche St. Plymouth, MI USA
I have a few of those "Owl Eye" Zeniths, they really neat-o but yes, a pain to recap. I see you using 250v filter caps... those are bigger in size, why not use the smaller 160v rated ones? Good you used radial lead ones , they are smaller and usually easier to wire.
And, radial lead are slightly cheaper too.
Mark Oppat
Antique Audio


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 Post subject: Re: Radio Restoration Diary 2 ( post photobucket)
PostPosted: Sep Wed 06, 2017 6:23 pm 
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Joined: Dec Mon 08, 2008 8:27 pm
Posts: 8101
Location: alameda,CA
Actually I was out of the 160 volt caps. A new order came in from Sal yesterday ( thanks Sal! )

Anyway.... a few more sets.

1: Small,plain Motorola AA5. After a recap I gave it a two-tone paint job. I messed it up pretty bad a few days ago in that I didn't wait long enough to apply the 2nd color and it wrinkled up the finish. So that had to get sanded off and I started all over again... It looks pretty good now.
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2: A MASSIVE Grundig console. ( I'll get the model Number later )This thing is probably 7 feet long and weighs a ton. It won't even fit in my truck. So I took some of the innards home. It has a reel to reel, record player, a stereo amp, and 6 speakers.

A: The amp has 4 EL84's, 2 per channel as well as a set of 12AX7's. The can caps were 200uF and then two 100uF rated. There were a whole litter of smaller value electrolytics as well as two very difficult to get at paper caps.
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B: The tuner chassis also of course needed an overhaul. It took a solid afternoon to do so.
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There are 14 tubes in the set and of those 6DA6 and Two 12AX7's tested very weak. Those have been replaced.

The record player seems to have a faulty pickup, I assume salt crystal meaning finding a replacement will either be difficult, expensive, or both. But for this set its probably worth it. The reel to reel? I might see if another member can work on that.


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 Post subject: Re: Radio Restoration Diary 2 ( post photobucket)
PostPosted: Sep Thu 07, 2017 7:48 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 4859
Location: 253 Blanche St. Plymouth, MI USA
The German sets were imported to the USA heavily from 1957 to 1964. They mostly used CERAMIC cartridges. Beware that even NOS ones can be bad due to decayed rubber in the cartridge. Buy from a dealer that tests theirs and backs them up. Gary at www.thevoiceofmusic.com is a good source.
Mark Oppat
Antique Audio
Plymouth, MI


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 Post subject: Re: Radio Restoration Diary 2 ( post photobucket)
PostPosted: Sep Thu 07, 2017 4:28 pm 
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Joined: Dec Mon 08, 2008 8:27 pm
Posts: 8101
Location: alameda,CA
This one in particular was brought back from germany via a US serviceman. We received it from his widow. Its all in German. Interesting that we have two such very large sets and both have the same story. We don't come across the super high end models like these often. I'm not sure how many were sold to the US market as they were VERY costly even in Germany.

Anyway... now that the Grundig chassis(s) are done I'll install them Saturday. In the meantime I worked on this German made RCA. Its actually made by Graetz and RCA stuck their label on it. Its an ok set. Probably about the same quality as your run of the mill medium level Grundig. Prior to me working on it PrimitiveRadioGod did some stuff. There was zero reception on FM and replacing the ECC85 tube made no difference. According to him someone really messed up the IF cans on this thing. So bad that they are damaged beyond repair. The effort to find replacements isn't worth it. In fact a month ago we sold another set that lacked FM but it didn't matter: It got a Bluetooth receiver and that's all the buyers really want to use these for anyway. So likewise this one got an internal bluetooth device installed and it sounds pretty good.

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 Post subject: Re: Radio Restoration Diary 2 ( post photobucket)
PostPosted: Sep Tue 12, 2017 4:30 pm 
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Joined: Dec Mon 08, 2008 8:27 pm
Posts: 8101
Location: alameda,CA
The wife was away for a few days so thus plenty-o-time to work on more radios.

1: A 1940 Zenith 7-S-458. This thing was donated Saturday and it looked in rather sorry shape. Naturally I forgot to take before pics... Anyway it needed everything. Bad 6A8, An open wire wound resistor, stuck tuning condenser, blown pilot lamps. The chassis is damned near impossible to work on and layers of stuff like the pushbutton assembly and so on have to be removed in order to access things. Lots of rotten rubber wiring that had to be replaced too. The grill cloth was ripped. I don't have exact Zenith stuff so I installed generic grill cloth instead. I also need knobs as one set is totally wrong.
Sounds surprisingly good for a modest set
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2: A rather large Montgomery Wards table set. All-slug tuning, a generous speaker, 8 tubes. The thing was a pain. I worked on it.... Primitiveradiogod worked on it.... I worked on it again... Bottom line more time than I'd hoped was spent on it. Its not exactly a looker but it actually produces a really nice, deep, bassy sound. The original field coil speaker was shot and so a perm. magnet speaker was installed instead, running the original field coil leads to a 500ohm 10 watt resistor mounted to the top of the chassis for heat dissipation. It also has bluetooth installed.
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3: A smallish Coronado. An easy recap and done deal, I figured maybe try some more elaborate masking and two tone painting.
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4: A sort of trashed Admiral clock radio.
Missing a chunk out of the front I figured nuttin' to lose. So it got the ever popular cocktail pink paint job that the ladies seem to love. Crappy admiral PCB board making replacing the caps a sort of delicate task

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Radio Restoration Diary 2 ( post photobucket)
PostPosted: Sep Tue 12, 2017 5:11 pm 
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Joined: May Mon 30, 2011 10:12 pm
Posts: 1151
Location: Glendale, CA
You did a really nice job on those radios!

Do you think the deep bass sound of the Airline was there with the old original speaker or is it a result of using a permanent magnet speaker?

Tom

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"A challenge to be met, rather than an obstacle to avoid." - Mr. Data


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 Post subject: Re: Radio Restoration Diary 2 ( post photobucket)
PostPosted: Sep Tue 12, 2017 5:14 pm 
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Joined: Dec Mon 08, 2008 8:27 pm
Posts: 8101
Location: alameda,CA
The one that was in it originally also produced a lot of bass. The radio drives speakers pretty hard actually. What I put in was a boring grocery store sound system speaker but it sounds rather nice just the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Radio Restoration Diary 2 ( post photobucket)
PostPosted: Sep Fri 15, 2017 10:41 pm 
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Joined: Dec Mon 08, 2008 8:27 pm
Posts: 8101
Location: alameda,CA
Well.... the radios are winding down as we haven't had many donations lately. So I might be updating this less frequently save for a rather massive Grundig project. Anyway, here's two more:

1: Silvertone "pie crust" radio. The 35W4 was totally shorted and that had burnt out a resistor. I feel like I've seen a ton of these so maybe they were good selling sets.
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2: Another super common radio, this GE. EVERY one of these I've worked on has a crack in the top of the case. There's no reinforcement at all so of course someone picks it up by the top edge and it does that. Oh well. BOTH of the IF/RF cans were bad too. Both replaced along with the recap job.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Radio Restoration Diary 2 ( post photobucket)
PostPosted: Sep Tue 19, 2017 4:46 pm 
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Joined: Dec Mon 08, 2008 8:27 pm
Posts: 8101
Location: alameda,CA
Now that the supply of sets is dwindling down I am working on a few random projects.

1: This Emerson table set. Its fairly common but the original finish is in really good shape. Its an unusual set in that Emerson clearly modified an older chassis to use miniature tubes: There are metal blanks covering the larger octal tube holes. It was a straightforward job.
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2:An ongoing project involving a huge Grundig console. The woofers used a sort of foam that has deteriorated. I ordered a kit to repair them only to find that these aren't 10" but rather 10.5". Figures... silly German stuff... But that means there's no available surrounds to fit it and people have had to resort to making their own. I spent a number of hours removing the old glue and foam and then cut new surrounds, centering the cone with paper shims. It was a failure and thus I'll need to find good replacement 1-" speakers. Arg.

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3: Something I haven't worked on in years is anything from the 20's. This is a 1928 RCA Radiola 18. It actually works great but as with most of these the tuning condenser was stuck solid. My sort of crude solution so far has been to apply engine valve lapping compound, attach a a set of locking pliars to the shaft and turn it back and forth over and over again. It is gradually turning easier and easier but I'll probably need to do this for a bit every evening for a few days. The plan is to install an audio input , which won't be straightforward and will involve a cap and a small transistor radio transformer to increase the bias since the "Volume" on this only serves to increase the filament voltage thus not acting like a volume mechanism at all.
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Image


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 Post subject: Re: Radio Restoration Diary 2 ( post photobucket)
PostPosted: Sep Wed 20, 2017 8:35 pm 
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Joined: Dec Mon 08, 2008 8:27 pm
Posts: 8101
Location: alameda,CA
Last evening I did succeed at locating a point where audio can run into the Radiola. Actually it works pretty well.

But... The stupid tuning condenser is still being a royal pain. The pins holding the shaft in place will not come out and so the only solution is to continue working the thing back and forth. Mixing valve lapping compound with oil seems to work a bit faster but not by much. After a few beers I spent a good 45 minutes cranking it back and forth, watching as a small dribble of black sludge comes oozing out as more of the pot metal is gradually worn down. It is now about 50% easier to turn so I guess it'll be another few nights of doing this. The things I do for this museum...

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 Post subject: Re: Radio Restoration Diary 2 ( post photobucket)
PostPosted: Sep Thu 28, 2017 10:17 pm 
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Joined: Dec Mon 08, 2008 8:27 pm
Posts: 8101
Location: alameda,CA
Not much to report about this week. One radio, a 1947 Stromberg Carlson AM/FM set. I've done a few of these. They are sort of ridiculously complicated and use about 10,000 .01uF caps. But for a 40's FM set it works surprisingly well and even sounds decent too. Its an unusual design. Almost appears like a European radio rather than something made here.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Radio Restoration Diary 2 ( post photobucket)
PostPosted: Sep Thu 28, 2017 11:17 pm 
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Joined: Jan Mon 18, 2010 2:13 am
Posts: 15371
Location: Dayton Ohio
I have the wooden version of that S-C. I've yet to restore it.

I think I also have a white bakelite version too.

-Steve

_________________
Radio Interests
-Zenith
-Sparton
-Pre-War FM
Consoles and floor models, the bigger, the better!


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 Post subject: Re: Radio Restoration Diary 2 ( post photobucket)
PostPosted: Sep Fri 29, 2017 9:20 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2541
Location: England
For the 18 you have to take the gang off and have it somewhere solid, as an anvil, to get the pins out. Any flex in the chassis wont allow sufficient impact where its needed to remove the pin.

There is an extensive write up on overhauling the item on the Internet, http://www.nostalgiaair.org/References/ ... la18-2.htm

Basically the dial scale and cord are removed and then the pulley wheel, after driving out a lock pin. Then, according to the write up, a similar pin is driven out on the inside of the frame allowing the rotor to be removed and give access to the plain bearing, a flat washer and a tensioning wave washer. Unfortunately, on mine, reasonable force would not remove the inner pin. What I did was to drop the fixed vanes down by removing their side screws. Then with the rotor fully open it was possible to slide it back sufficiently to allow access for inspection and cleaning. Fortunately the problem was only caused by old grease and dirt. Once cleaned and the bearing repacked with Lithium grease, and the gang re-assembled, it turned smoothly.

You can see the inner pin in this picture ...

Attachment:
RF Chassis top WEB.jpg
RF Chassis top WEB.jpg [ 112.13 KiB | Viewed 875 times ]


Don't really understand why you are bodging this one up? Better to be sold, as was, to an enthusiast who would do a proper restoration. Adding Bluetooth to an 18 ... No way!!

Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Radio Restoration Diary 2 ( post photobucket)
PostPosted: Sep Fri 29, 2017 4:50 pm 
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Joined: Dec Mon 08, 2008 8:27 pm
Posts: 8101
Location: alameda,CA
Gary, Over here these Radiolas are for some reason extremely common and the market for them has utterly collapsed. If we get one in we're lucky if we can even get rid of the things. Often times we will put $10-$20 on it and call it a day and even then they'll just sit around collecting dust. I wasn't able to get a bluetooth adapter to work for this one but I did manage to install an audio in and it doesn't modify the set in any way and could be removed in 2 minutes. But the bottom line is that 20's sets have fallen out of favor, which might be due to the collectors of them dying off. Its a shame, but what can one do about it?

The idea behind this is the same as for some of the AA5 sets I've done: Since there isn't any music on AM around here the sets as radios only become almost useless. Allowing someone to hear whatever they want through the sets but still have the set's original AM functionality means they suddenly become useful again. And so in turn we have been able to find new homes for many sets that otherwise would've probably sat around forever. I was also just curious if this sort of thing could be done with a TRF set like this Radiola and believe it or not it works fine. I did ultimately free the tuning condenser and it works well now.


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