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 Post subject: Can you say Shill bids?
PostPosted: Jul Sat 15, 2017 4:41 am 
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Joined: Jan Sat 01, 2011 9:10 pm
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Location: Temple, GA
Check out the bids on this item. I still don't see how this guy continues to get away with this stuff.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-1930s-O ... 1438.l2649


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 Post subject: Re: Can you say Shill bids?
PostPosted: Jul Sat 15, 2017 4:55 am 
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That's easy---EBay makes a lot of money from his sales.

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 Post subject: Re: Can you say Shill bids?
PostPosted: Jul Sat 15, 2017 11:35 am 
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Even before I clicked on the link, I knew exactly who you were talking about and, sure enough, I was right. Shill bidding and this seller seem to be synonymous in ARF discussions.

pixellany wrote:
That's easy---EBay makes a lot of money from his sales.

Yup, Ebay has sold out it's integrity to the all mighty dollar. There was a time when they would have responded to something like this but not any more. Those days are long gone. People need to accept the fact that shill bidding is now a part of how Ebay does business.

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 Post subject: Re: Can you say Shill bids?
PostPosted: Jul Sun 16, 2017 3:20 am 
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I bet if someone had a good lawyer and the money to do so, they could "wake up" ebay and get them to follow their own rules.

-Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Can you say Shill bids?
PostPosted: Jul Sun 16, 2017 1:20 pm 
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Joined: Jul Sun 09, 2006 3:11 am
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Location: Aurora, CO
If you care to add up "past month" sales, you'll see why Ebay and Paypal are ok with shilling.


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 Post subject: Re: Can you say Shill bids?
PostPosted: Jul Mon 17, 2017 5:52 am 
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Location: Omak,wa,usa
hello otherzenithguy,
yes I reported his rear but as you see ebay did not care this guy is starting to really get on my nerves because every time I turn around and find nice radio on ebay to bid on i find out he is the seller .
sincerely Rich


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 Post subject: Re: Can you say Shill bids?
PostPosted: Jul Mon 17, 2017 12:42 pm 
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Joined: Oct Fri 28, 2016 7:40 am
Posts: 46
Location: Washington, DC
I must say, I still don't understand how to know from the bid information that shill bidding is going on. Suspect, sure. I don't have to look at any data to do that. But, how do we _know_ that shill bidding occurred in this listing?

This seller does list some interesting stuff. I have even noted how he has purchased a radio on eBay and turned right around and listed the same radio on eBay. Clearly, he is doing this for a profit. So, how can you buy at full retail and expect to sell even higher in the exact same market? Never really came up with a convincing answer.

I have never bought from him because his non-informative boiler-plate listings seem to indicate he knows little about the item he is selling, and I'm not confident in what I might receive. Given eBays strong buyer bias, I can imagine giving it a try one day, though; which I would never consider doing otherwise. So, perhaps eBay is providing 'some' small service to sellers who could never get any meaningful money for their items otherwise.


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 Post subject: Re: Can you say Shill bids?
PostPosted: Jul Mon 17, 2017 3:17 pm 
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Talon150 wrote:
I must say, I still don't understand how to know from the bid information that shill bidding is going on. Suspect, sure. I don't have to look at any data to do that. But, how do we _know_ that shill bidding occurred in this listing?


I'm with you Talon150. Can someone please explain. I know what shill bidding is but not sure how you know it is happening in this situation? I am not saying it isn't, I just want to be educated for my own well being when I am deciding to bid on an item. I clicked on the history of every bidder on this item and they all have multiple bids and wins.

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 Post subject: Re: Can you say Shill bids?
PostPosted: Jul Mon 17, 2017 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
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Location: Long Beach, CA USA
A single low-feedback buyer with about 30 bids on this item is a little curious. On the other hand no one is holding a gun to the heads of other bidders.


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 Post subject: Re: Can you say Shill bids?
PostPosted: Jul Mon 17, 2017 8:29 pm 
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Hello Allen,
but it's known fact this person has a bunch of ebay accounts set up just to bid their sales up also it's know when someone wins one the auctions that they may not get their item


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 Post subject: Re: Can you say Shill bids?
PostPosted: Jul Mon 17, 2017 10:35 pm 
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If an item is relisted after it's been won by one of these "rapid fire" bidders, then you can bet something stinks.

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 Post subject: Re: Can you say Shill bids?
PostPosted: Jul Thu 20, 2017 10:35 am 
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Joined: Jan Mon 16, 2012 4:15 pm
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Location: Near Brandon, Iowa
Even if a shill was involved- and there seems to be some justification to claim that this was the case- it's incumbent on the winning bidder to determine if he is paying a reasonable amount for the item or not. Seems to me that shills who drive up prices to a ridiculous level are a problem only if you are a totally clueless bidder with absolutely no sense of the value of the item being sold. "A fool and his money..."; "Caveat emptor" and all that.

If shill bidders consistently are winning bids from a given seller, unless the seller wants to preserve the fiction of being honest, the seller would have to eat the eBay fees on the transaction, which are a percentage of the sale price. This could be evaded (transaction cancellation, etc) but I wouldn't think that eBay would let a pattern of behavior slide by, since it is money out of its pockets.

A more subtle problem would be sellers who use shills or false accounts to slightly jack up bids on auctions that are significantly undervalued: this would be more difficult to detect as long as the seller didn't get too greedy. The downside for bidders is that it precludes the possibility of getting "a fantastic deal"... which is what motivates many eBay buyers.


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 Post subject: Re: Can you say Shill bids?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 21, 2017 7:43 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2895
Location: Lexington Kentucky
otherzenithguy wrote:
I still don't see how this guy continues to get away with this stuff.

How it's done:

Go to fiver.com and search for "auction bidding" services. You'll find a BUNCH of individuals that can help you "...be sure your item achieves a realistic sales price....". In their for-hire ads they state that it will be understood that they will never pay for an item and the seller will never ding their multiple bidding accounts for non-payment or negative feedback. Ebay does NOT get paid because these shill sales are never concluded.

But sometimes noobies and interior decorators get caught in a bidding war and THEY pay.

Once, one of the moderators here was keeping a record of individual item relistings....it was 3-4 per item before it was apparently sold.


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