The question is... what's really available and good?

I have a nice high quality tube-amp... so Ok.. now how do I feed quality into it?

Cds currently are about the most prevalent form of high quality recorded audio. Right?

But CDs are fading away in favor of the ease and convenience of on-line audio that is available instantly. And right now that form seems to be MP3 as the defacto standard.

So the best I can hope for is what?

To find high quality MP3 recordings that have least compression?
And where will the home-audio market go next?
Will it be a table-top CD player that accepts SD ram cards with MP3?

All want is a hi quality source to feed my tube amp.. BUT I'd like it to include the ease of use of MP3.

What's out there?

May I make a suggestion? Please don't take this the wrong way, but a discussion of what might or might not be available for injecting quality audio into a power amp might be more appropriate in it's own thread. Just a suggestion, no malice intended.

Larry

Well of course it would Larry...
Why don't you start that thread Larry.. I'd certainly be glad to follow it eagerly an participate in it.

But at this point ..this is simply a logical follow up question ( part of the ongoing exchange) to Tom (35z5) and "Flipperhome" since they were just commenting on this exact subject.
Jumping off to another thread with this question NOW instead of following up here.. would lose the train of thought of the immediate conversation.. wouldn't it?

Tom is indicating that I ought to be seeking a higher quality input but doesn't suggest what or where so my direct reply is to ask what does exist out there that both he and Flipperhome are alluding to.

So this is a specific integral follow-up to an existing interchange of thought.. no?.

As related to the original topic of an MP3 player for an AM transmitter? No, not really.

Larry

Larry, ....Didn't I just go over that?
"But at this point . .this is simply a logical follow up question ( and part of the ongoing exchange) ..."

What transmitter are you using? We're discussing the use of an MP3 module with an AM xmitter, not a power amp or home stereo system. You hijacked the thread and now you want to get touchy because I asked you very kindly to start your own thread?

Here, you hijacked it and now it's all yours. Over and out.

Larry

lol ... omg... Larry... I'm not "touchy" at all.
I agreed with you fully... AND I simply explained how it got to this point. that's all.

I'm actually using the Ramsey AM25 transmitter... but what's the difference which transmitter? My questions about quality are still germane.
.. It would also be nice to go directly into my tube amp too... so what?

But the bulk of the content of this thread has been more pointedly about the MP3 module itself and its quality and how to get into and out of it... not so much as to which output was used.. be it xmitter or whatnot right?
So since my primary questions were about accessing the output properly and the best point for quality...there was NO intention of "hijacking" the thread..
Why do you seem to just want to argue and split hairs?

My apologies. I didn't mean to start an 'audiophile' discussion but, rather, meant it was one of the apples in the oranges.

For AM the matter is moot since AM doesn't have the frequency or dynamic range to come even remotely close and while FM can reach what was, for the time, considered 'Hi-Fi' it's still less than modern 'audiophile' quality.

But my point was that Pbpix has indicated he's satisfied with MP3 audio coming out his 'good' MP3 player so 'audiophile' isn't the issue. The issue is finding a decent MP3 player (the one under discussion falling short) that has a remote control and shuffle, since he wants that too. Unfortunately, I don't see that combination, particularly shuffle, in any of the 'el cheapo' Chinese 'modules'.

As for MP3 quality, you'd want the highest available bit rate (like 320kbps) or, even better, a player that supports a lossless encoder like FLAC. FLAC can also do 24 Bit, btw.

At the risk of conflating a gazillion factors into one broad brush generalization, a well encoded 128kbps, or higher, MP3 is arguably 'FM like' quality.

Thanks so much Flipperhome:
Are those particular-specs easily found on MP3 players spec sheets?

The two players I use now are Sansa Clip and Gigaware 42-542.
Looking at the specs for the latter:
It says for ear phone out:
SNR =>80db
Freq range 1-3db = 20-20khz
THD = <0.5%
Ch Sep = >35db

But nothing about the MP3 coding bit rate or FLAC or such.

Do you know about which ones out there (make/model) meet the highest quality such that you're indicating?

The specs you quoted are pretty much it. MP3 has a lot to do with that SN ratio, btw, because encoding raises the noise floor. I.E. encoding 'errors' show up as noise. -80dB is a bit better than FM, and I mean mono. FM frequency response is often rolled off over 15KHz but, truth be told, most 'average adults' won't notice much over 15KHz anyway and talk about >20KHz effects gets into the audiophile 'mystique' (CDs are brick walled at 20KHz).

I'm not up on which standalone units might support FLAC because I use a PC for that but, in any case, if it doesn’t say so then it doesn’t do it. A quick google turned up plenty of devices (not with remote) saying so, though. http://shopper.cnet.com/buy-mp3-players/?filter=501502_8128092_&tag=mncol;srt&rpp=25&sort=lowPrice9+asc#sort

This one *says* it supports FLAC but... Chinese. It says nothing about shuffle and the one review says it doesn't remember where it was when powered off. http://dx.com/car-mp5-player-module-with-remote-controller-usb-sd-slot-59430?item=6

On a quick search I couldn't find anything (cheap anyway) that does FLAC and has a remote that wasn't a 'media' player, not just audio.

Gawd I just love 'Chinese'. In the comments section a fellah who got one says the manual is for the wrong unit and one reply is "Why need a manual ?"

Thanks again Flipper home:

I thought it would be easy to find something.. but sorting around it seems not so easy.

A desktop media playback device with remote control for either CD & Mp3 ( or just Mp3 only via USB or SD card) with a vol adjustable HP jack or vol adjustable audio (RCA jacks) out.

I did see... a device by Sony with a 5 CD changer and USB-port for MP3 .. and a remote and RCA analog output.
But I can't be sure if that analog is fixed line/level or adjustable by vol control.
http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores ... r=CDPCE500

So maybe there just a good MP3 DAC/headphone amp ( with remote)..
It doesn't seem too easy...
I'm even willing to pay up to around $150

The real convenience to this thing ultimately, would be that it could feed either my lo-fi AM transmitter ( with a switch) or my hi-fi headphones or tube-amp.

Well, I can't recommend any particular unit because I haven't been in the market recently but, since you're considering 'big buck' items, relatively speaking, I do have a couple of suggestions. For one, since you have some rather specific needs it might be a good idea to go to a brick and mortar store so you can see and test what you're considering, plus you'd have a more reliable return option.

Second, it might be worth looking into DVD and Blue-ray players because they're more common than CD only these days and might give you more features for less. You want to make sure they include analog outputs, of course.

That's quite a bit different than a simple MP3 player, though.

Another option might be a spare PC, if you've got one, and add a remote to it. I mean, Winamp will do everything you want, including FLAC (free optional plug-in), so all you need is a remote.

I got curious so here's a 'for example'. Walmart has a refurbished Samsung BD-D5250C Blu-ray Disc Player for $59.98, which also has internet connectivity, including Pandora, so you could 'broadcast' any Pandora station through an AM or FM transmitter. (I just use my PC). It also has a USB port.

For even cheaper they have a plain ole Philips DVP3560/F7 DVD player, with USB but no internet, for $29.98. It'll also dump an audio CD to the USB stick.

Whether the remote of either can control the audio RCA jack volume I don't know.

I agree.

I use WInamp with the stereo tools plugin (has a real nice AM transmitter setting) for feeding my two tube AM transmitter. I also have a line in plugin for feeding an external analog audio source through the stereo tools plugin.

Larry,

X2 on your thoughts as well, especially since you started the thread and made a polite request for a new thread.
This is a technique that may solve the problem, really cleans up future threads....

Mike

ucp.php?i=zebra&mode=foes

This unit does have a hiss, especially when compared to my other MP3 player in my other xmitter, but by turning the internal volume of the player down to somewhere in the mid 20's and turning the gain up on the xmitter it knocks the hiss way down, but does not eliminate it totally. When I have time one day I may experiment with different caps across the output but right now it's not that bothersome.

There is no shuffle capability in this player, or at least I can't find how to access it.

The red display is nice. It indicates what input is active and what type file is playing as well as displaying a digital time count.

I have not tried the aux input yet. That's going to wait until I set the xmitter in it's permanent location, where the CD player is located.

Update:
I connected up a CD player to the Aux input and was surpised to hear almost nothing. Very low level audio. After some fussing and checking I figured the MP3 player must have built-in resistance so I removed R1 and R2 from the 1/8" input jack. The sound came back to normal, same level as the USB and memory card inputs. So if your building the 12AV6-12CS6 xmitter you may have to leave out R1 and R2.

Since there's a lot of electrical fun in the sky tonight I can't judge clarity right now so that'll have to wait for these annoying storms to move on.

Larry

FWIW, I ran 56 MP3's through MP3Gain and copied them to a thumbdrive. Big difference. I also noticed that the xmitter (12AV6-12CS6) needs about a 10 minute warmup for best performance and now there is virtually no hiss. It's still a little heavy on bass but setting the EQ to 94 helps.

Larry

On the 'MP3 Player' theme I have another idea but, to recap, a lot of people were disappointed there's no shuffle on the 'el-cheapo' Chinese modules and I would like a remote control.

What happened is I ran across this thing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/280949157058?var=580128578584&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

The crux of the idea, for my purposes anyway, would be to use a cell phone as the player and, with the Bluetooth, it's also the 'remote control'. Actually, it's the transmitter that would be 'remote' but the effect is the same and with a smart phone you could have all the fancy functions you like.

Of course, you could also use it with a tablet, notebook, or a desktop PC that might not be conveniently located for direct connection.

Has anyone used one of those things to see what the audio quality is like? Also, does anyone know if it'll accept 'plain', mono, 'headset' audio in addition to A2DP? The reason I ask is stereo doesn't matter for a mono AM transmitter and older cell phones don't support A2DP so, if it does, that might be a nice use for a 'no longer in service' smartphone.

Seems like it would be cool to integrate in a transmitter. Could then install a bluetooth module in the computer if it don't already have it.

I've purchased several of the MP3 players and they all came with a remote control, even the little FM version for the car.

Larry