Forums :: Resources :: Features :: Photo Gallery :: Vintage Radio Shows :: Archives :: Books
Support This Site: Contributors :: Advertise


It is currently Dec Sun 17, 2017 7:12 am


All times are UTC [ DST ]





Post New Topic Post Reply  [ 1915 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 96  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: A new 300B amp project
PostPosted: Aug Sun 06, 2017 8:39 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec Mon 29, 2014 9:39 pm
Posts: 3436
Location: Los Angeles
Am considering building the 300B stereo amp.
http://diyaudioprojects.com/Tubes/300B-SET-Amplifier/
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Peter turned me on to it.

NOTICE
Do not buy this kit. I did. No schematic was included, and the picture of the PCB is not correct.
Read about it on page 27
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hi-end-300B-6SN ... 2749.l2648
On second thought, I traced out the PCB and found out the schematic is traditional, according to Flip,
Whom I trust very highly. So I will build it. Let the fun begin, about page 29.


UPDATE
Construction begins on page 68.
The amp is named the 'BLUMOON'
download/file.php?id=194668

_________________
John Smith, over and out.
If I did something right, I made a mistake.


Last edited by john8750 on Nov Fri 03, 2017 9:48 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A new 300B amp project
PostPosted: Aug Sun 06, 2017 9:48 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 21286
Location: Haledon, NJ, usa
Go for it John!

The best part is that you'll have this exciting 'new' project.
... and when it's done you'll have the pure JOY of listening to it as the "fruits of your labors".

The funny thing will be:
... when you DO get to enjoy listening to it .. will what you hear be truly "better" than anything else you ever built before? Or will you only believe it's better because you "think" it's supposed to be?

And... will you ever know for sure? ... lol

But I say... "Do it" ... I'd love to see how it goes.

FIRST.... you must do a serious bit of researching and reading about what approach and why.
Such choices as power supply design soild state or tube or with and w/o a choke etc etc.

So... it will be fun... and I look forward to learning about this 300B amp for myself as you build it too.

_________________
To be a man, Be a non-conformist, Nothing's sacred as the integrity of your own mind.
-Emerson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A new 300B amp project
PostPosted: Aug Mon 07, 2017 2:53 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov Sat 26, 2011 4:09 am
Posts: 8092
Location: Texas. USA
Ah yes, the Single Ended Triode (SET) mythos. The theory holds that only Class A single ended triodes with no feedback are the path to true tube nirvana.

I think you're going to be surprised at the cost of components. The 300B's alone will set you back $75 to $120 each, unless you go for the gold, a modern issue WE 300B at $370 each. Of course, the real gold are original Western Electric 300B's at a mere $2,500 each. The Lundahl OPTs are $240 each.

But at least you end up with an 8 Watt amp.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A new 300B amp project
PostPosted: Aug Mon 07, 2017 3:28 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec Mon 29, 2014 9:39 pm
Posts: 3436
Location: Los Angeles
I have been checking some prices. A can afford it, except not the expensive 300B's. Edcor beats all the iron products by 50%
I realize that I cant expect any better performance than the amps I have built, for a quarter the price, or could I?
I don't know about a SE amp using no UL and no CCS. What about NFB?
I know you like it Peter.
What do really think about it Flip? Seems like you say Na. I mean performance, not price, any advantage?

_________________
John Smith, over and out.
If I did something right, I made a mistake.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A new 300B amp project
PostPosted: Aug Mon 07, 2017 4:50 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mar Sun 11, 2007 6:55 am
Posts: 9357
Location: Mission Viejo, southern California
Several years,ago I found a Web site for a guy who builds push-pull parallel 300 amplifiers. He even winds his own transformers. I think he has one with eight 300B tubes. I wish I could find the sight, but searching for 300 amplifiers yields many results.

_________________
many of my radios http://s269.photobucket.com/user/FSteph ... t=3&page=1


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A new 300B amp project
PostPosted: Aug Mon 07, 2017 4:55 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov Sat 26, 2011 4:09 am
Posts: 8092
Location: Texas. USA
john8750 wrote:
I have been checking some prices. A can afford it, except not the expensive 300B's. Edcor beats all the iron products by 50%
I realize that I cant expect any better performance than the amps I have built, for a quarter the price, or could I?
I don't know about a SE amp using no UL and no CCS. What about NFB?
I know you like it Peter.
What do really think about it Flip? Seems like you say Na. I mean performance, not price, any advantage?
First let me say, if you want to build it, and can afford it, then you should do so.

As for 'performance', that's a hotly debated topic. Some say yea and some say nay. Let's just say I'm skeptical (especially when people begin talking about which caps 'sound best'). The theory implies the 'best' of everything. E.g. (from the source page) "If you use the best available parts and materials in constructing it...." since, if it's not the 'best', you taint the nirvana. So using 'economy' Edcors is a no-no. In fact, there's eternal debate on the 'best' OPT (as well as everything else).

The theory forbids any feedback of any kind, including UL. There is a point to the theory. Feedback inherently introduces additional harmonics, albeit at a very low level. It also forbids push pull since that alters the 'natural' harmonic distribution (2'nd, but not the others, is canceled in the OPT), which affects sound. By not using feedback and push pull, then, the sound is 'natural', or so the theory goes.

The opposing view is that distortion is distortion. It might be pleasing distortion but that 'colors' the original source and, so, is not 'natural'. The goal is (or should be) to reduce distortion to inaudible levels. In which case, the distribution, and everything else associated with distortion, doesn't matter because you can't hear it. The only was to achieve that is by the use of negative feedback because all amplifying devices (no matter the talk of 'linear') are inherently non-linear (some worse or better than others).

I just happen to lean toward the latter view. That's not to say an SET amp can't sound wonderful, just not (IMO) 'true to the source'. But, with rock especially, how would you know, since it's distorted to begin with?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A new 300B amp project
PostPosted: Aug Mon 07, 2017 5:33 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec Mon 29, 2014 9:39 pm
Posts: 3436
Location: Los Angeles
FStephenMasek wrote:
Several years,ago I found a Web site for a guy who builds push-pull parallel 300 amplifiers. He even winds his own transformers. I think he has one with eight 300B tubes. I wish I could find the sight, but searching for 300 amplifiers yields many results.



Thanks for that thought. I will do some searching. Sure sounds like fun.....

_________________
John Smith, over and out.
If I did something right, I made a mistake.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A new 300B amp project
PostPosted: Aug Mon 07, 2017 5:46 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec Mon 29, 2014 9:39 pm
Posts: 3436
Location: Los Angeles
I hear you Flip, and respect your thoughts very highly. You said'
all amplifying devices (no matter the talk of 'linear') are inherently non-linear (some worse or better than others).
Do you mean "non-linear" or not as linear as they should, or could be? Or is that the same thing?
Are Hammond trannys better that Edcor?
I saw expensive Sullen Coke Can caps used in the B+ power supply. Is that necessary?
I noticed your comment that at least I will have a 8watt amp. 8)

_________________
John Smith, over and out.
If I did something right, I made a mistake.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A new 300B amp project
PostPosted: Aug Mon 07, 2017 7:03 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov Sat 26, 2011 4:09 am
Posts: 8092
Location: Texas. USA
john8750 wrote:
I hear you Flip, and respect your thoughts very highly. You said'
all amplifying devices (no matter the talk of 'linear') are inherently non-linear (some worse or better than others).
Do you mean "non-linear" or not as linear as they should, or could be? Or is that the same thing?
Are Hammond trannys better that Edcor?
I saw expensive Sullen Coke Can caps used in the B+ power supply. Is that necessary?
I noticed your comment that at least I will have a 8watt amp. 8)
Not as linear as they should be. Of course, "should be" is perfectly linear but no known active device meets that criteria, so they all introduce distortion.

I don't think Hammond is 'better' but others might disagree.

I don't know about "Sullen Coke Can caps." IMO a lot of the views on what to use in SET designs are self fulfilling voodoo. I.e. it's 'better' because they expect them to be, so that's what they hear. It's a form of confirmation bias. Related, any DIY amp is bound to sound worlds better than store-bought, because you built it yourself. Also, any mega-buck amp will sound better because you spent mega-bucks for it (what do they think I am? Dumb or something? <Lina Lamont>).

It's not quite as egocentric as it sounds because the ear is incredibly adaptive, not to mention taste, so there's plenty of room for (self serving) 'interpretation'. That's why I'm reluctant to make super-luminal claims about my amp designs. It's also why I always recommend making measurements. Measurement don't bend to opinion (at least not usually).

I was being a little tongue in cheek about the 8 Watt amp. I mean, you can spend thousands of dollars, or a hundred dollars, and still end up with an 8 Watt amp. :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A new 300B amp project
PostPosted: Aug Mon 07, 2017 9:10 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 21286
Location: Haledon, NJ, usa
john8750 wrote:
What about NFB?
I know you like it Peter.

I don't think you've been listening to me very closely during our last telco Johnny boy.
Remember, you said you saw that I added a new switch to the NFB line on the 6v6 and 5902 amps.

I explained that I did that to give you the option of using the NFB or not... and that I thought it seemed to sound "better" or more "full" with the switch open or not using the NFB.

Don't you remember you said you were going to try disconnecting the NFB line to try it?
Did you forget to do that?

..or did you do it but forget you did it?

_________________
To be a man, Be a non-conformist, Nothing's sacred as the integrity of your own mind.
-Emerson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A new 300B amp project
PostPosted: Aug Mon 07, 2017 9:16 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 21286
Location: Haledon, NJ, usa
Here's a review about a WAVEC-300b amp... only costs $24,490.00
https://www.dagogo.com/wavac-ec-300b-tu ... ier-review

_________________
To be a man, Be a non-conformist, Nothing's sacred as the integrity of your own mind.
-Emerson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A new 300B amp project
PostPosted: Aug Mon 07, 2017 9:22 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 21286
Location: Haledon, NJ, usa
Some general forum chat about 300b :
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=64611.0

More:
reviews of a top notch Sophia Electric 91-03 300b amp
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue7 ... a_300b.htm

_________________
To be a man, Be a non-conformist, Nothing's sacred as the integrity of your own mind.
-Emerson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A new 300B amp project
PostPosted: Aug Mon 07, 2017 9:58 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: May Fri 04, 2012 10:39 pm
Posts: 1240
Location: Hidden Valley, AZ
A good project for anyone that builds.

Those caps are Solen, film caps from France. Highly recommended.

PM me when you get started, I'd be glad to guide you in construction and sourcing parts. I've been building stuff like this for many years.

Dennis

_________________
Never make fun of another man's gun.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A new 300B amp project
PostPosted: Aug Mon 07, 2017 10:03 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 21286
Location: Haledon, NJ, usa
W7TFO wrote:
A good project for anyone that builds.

Those caps are Solen, film caps from France. Highly recommended.

PM me when you get started, I'd be glad to guide you in construction and sourcing parts. I've been building stuff like this for many years.

Dennis

That's a nice kind offer Dennis! I'm sure John will appreciate it a ton.
And all the rest of us will learn of any tidbits you can give along the way too.

_________________
To be a man, Be a non-conformist, Nothing's sacred as the integrity of your own mind.
-Emerson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A new 300B amp project
PostPosted: Aug Mon 07, 2017 7:24 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec Mon 29, 2014 9:39 pm
Posts: 3436
Location: Los Angeles
Not as linear as they should be. Of course, "should be" is perfectly linear but no known active device meets that criteria, so they all introduce distortion.

I don't think Hammond is 'better' but others might disagree.
What would you suggest, not outrageously priced?


I don't know about "Sullen Coke Can caps." IMO a lot of the views on what to use in SET designs are self fulfilling voodoo. I.e. it's 'better' because they expect them to be, so that's what they hear. It's a form of confirmation bias. Related, any DIY amp is bound to sound worlds better than store-bought, because you built it yourself. Also, any mega-buck amp will sound better because you spent mega-bucks for it (what do they think I am? Dumb or something? <Lina Lamont>).
I know exactly what you mean.


It's not quite as egocentric as it sounds because the ear is incredibly adaptive, not to mention taste, so there's plenty of room for (self serving) 'interpretation'. That's why I'm reluctant to make super-luminal claims about my amp designs. It's also why I always recommend making measurements. Measurement don't bend to opinion (at least not usually).

I was being a little tongue in cheek about the 8 Watt amp. I mean, you can spend thousands of dollars, or a hundred dollars, and still end up with an 8 Watt amp. :wink:
Got the meaning, and enjoyed it.

_________________
John Smith, over and out.
If I did something right, I made a mistake.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A new 300B amp project
PostPosted: Aug Mon 07, 2017 7:28 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec Mon 29, 2014 9:39 pm
Posts: 3436
Location: Los Angeles
Pbpix wrote:
john8750 wrote:
What about NFB?
I know you like it Peter.

I don't think you've been listening to me very closely during our last telco Johnny boy.
Remember, you said you saw that I added a new switch to the NFB line on the 6v6 and 5902 amps.

I explained that I did that to give you the option of using the NFB or not... and that I thought it seemed to sound "better" or more "full" with the switch open or not using the NFB.

Don't you remember you said you were going to try disconnecting the NFB line to try it?
Did you forget to do that?

..or did you do it but forget you did it?



I di not try it yet Peter. Been busy with other projects. But will, and let you know all about my observation.

_________________
John Smith, over and out.
If I did something right, I made a mistake.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A new 300B amp project
PostPosted: Aug Mon 07, 2017 7:33 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec Mon 29, 2014 9:39 pm
Posts: 3436
Location: Los Angeles
W7TFO wrote:
A good project for anyone that builds.

Those caps are Solen, film caps from France. Highly recommended.

PM me when you get started, I'd be glad to guide you in construction and sourcing parts. I've been building stuff like this for many years.

Dennis



Thanks Dennis, also thanks for the correct spelling of the [b]solen caps. But, are they used in the power supply, or just in the audio path?
[b]I sure will keep in touch.

_________________
John Smith, over and out.
If I did something right, I made a mistake.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A new 300B amp project
PostPosted: Aug Mon 07, 2017 7:35 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec Mon 29, 2014 9:39 pm
Posts: 3436
Location: Los Angeles
Pbpix wrote:
Here's a review about a WAVEC-300b amp... only costs $24,490.00
https://www.dagogo.com/wavac-ec-300b-tu ... ier-review


But at least I will have a 8 watt amp. :lol:

_________________
John Smith, over and out.
If I did something right, I made a mistake.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A new 300B amp project
PostPosted: Aug Mon 07, 2017 7:37 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec Mon 29, 2014 9:39 pm
Posts: 3436
Location: Los Angeles
Pbpix wrote:
Some general forum chat about 300b :
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=64611.0

More:
reviews of a top notch Sophia Electric 91-03 300b amp
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue7 ... a_300b.htm



Thanks Peter. I will check those out for sure.

_________________
John Smith, over and out.
If I did something right, I made a mistake.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A new 300B amp project
PostPosted: Aug Mon 07, 2017 7:42 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec Mon 29, 2014 9:39 pm
Posts: 3436
Location: Los Angeles
What do you guys think about the direct coupling? How does the grid handle the seemingly high bias applied?
Is a separate rectifier, and/or power supply better, any advantages?
You bet it will sound better if I built it and it cost a lot of bucks.....

_________________
John Smith, over and out.
If I did something right, I made a mistake.


Top
 Profile  
 
Post New Topic Post Reply  [ 1915 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 96  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Pbpix and 4 guests



Search for:
Jump to:  


















Privacy Policy :: Powered by phpBB