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 Post subject: Re: Clever 6V6 audio amp with two novel circuits
PostPosted: Oct Sun 22, 2017 8:36 am 
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Peter, here is a set of Edcors, 20 bucks each.
http://www.edcorusa.com/gxse5-5k

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 Post subject: Re: Clever 6V6 audio amp with two novel circuits
PostPosted: Oct Sun 22, 2017 8:53 am 
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john8750 wrote:
Peter, here is a set of Edcors, 20 bucks each.
http://www.edcorusa.com/gxse5-5k

Something screwy... they only show then as 600 ohm 2ndary.
I can't find the dimensions either.

These are good 5k to 8 ohm for under $20
http://www.edcorusa.com/xseseries#/specFilters=7!#-!53!-#!9!#-!262!-#!14m!#-!196

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 Post subject: Re: Clever 6V6 audio amp with two novel circuits
PostPosted: Oct Sun 22, 2017 9:11 am 
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Pbpix wrote:
john8750 wrote:
Peter, here is a set of Edcors, 20 bucks each.
http://www.edcorusa.com/gxse5-5k

Something screwy... they only show then as 600 ohm 2ndary.
I can't find the dimensions either.

These are good 5k to 8 ohm for under $20
http://www.edcorusa.com/xseseries#/specFilters=7!#-!53!-#!9!#-!262!-#!14m!#-!196



I don't know.

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 Post subject: Re: Clever 6V6 audio amp with two novel circuits
PostPosted: Oct Sun 22, 2017 9:23 am 
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Pbpix wrote:
Flipperhome wrote:
john8750 wrote:
I went to your thread and read all about it. They are cheap enough. And could be used for testing.
I believe I do have a set of ot's you use for the Top Cat. Will dig back in the storage unit and see.
Remember, I do want to build that amp sometime.
I forgot to deal with the "testing" thing. What are you going to 'test' with them? They can't handle DC so they're completely unsuitable for SE and there's nothing you can do about it (unlike PP where you can balance the DC so it cancels).

If they can't handle DC... how'd you use them as output transformers?
By precisely balancing equal current through both sides of the PP transformer so they cancel for a 'net' current of zero. I.e. 1 through one side minus 1 through the other = zero.


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 Post subject: Re: Clever 6V6 audio amp with two novel circuits
PostPosted: Oct Sun 22, 2017 9:50 am 
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john8750 wrote:
Flipperhome wrote:
john8750 wrote:
I went to your thread and read all about it. They are cheap enough. And could be used for testing.
I believe I do have a set of ot's you use for the Top Cat. Will dig back in the storage unit and see.
Remember, I do want to build that amp sometime.
Well, when you get around to building it we might want to revisit the OPT matter because, in your case, I'm not sure but what you'd be happier with 'real' OPTs.

Of course Flip. My main thought is on the 300b right now. All these amps and other tube sets I have will be on display
in my hobby shop. Will send some photos. I do realize that I have no need for all of them. There is something about
the great feeling of an accomplishment with each project. Like the Little Prince, you showed me the very best caps to buy.
And the better resistors. The layout in the inner sanctum. The shielded tubes. Designed the DC heater circuit, and right
down to the exact components for the RIAA. Worked out the schematic for me. That is one fine amp, and that makes me proud.
I think it was the Paraphraser amp we were thinking about, not Top Cat.
Oh, okay. Paraphaser was my 'replacement line transformer', the Bogen after SPECO was no longer available, test bed. The Bogen has half the inductance of the SPECO and that's why I went with triode outputs. It also used the now defunct Radio Shack el cheapo 12.6 V, 3 A, transformer as well as the Triad N-68X, which limited power out to about 7 watt. I put it in what I call the "PC Speaker" class. You're just not going to get much 20 Hz out of it (although, it would do it if the Bogen could) but, truth be told, in most music you'd never notice because most music doesn't have any content below about 50 Hz, or so, anyway. Makes for a great PC Speaker amp, though. Of course, there's no reason why you couldn't use a proper OPT for full range. That was another reason for the 10 Watt line transformers, they're 8 K PP and match exactly what you can get in a regular OPT, so the design is the same for either. In fact, Prince John started life as the 'Princely Pauper' design using line transformers as the OPT. We just substituted Edcors and, bingo, Prince John.


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 Post subject: Re: Clever 6V6 audio amp with two novel circuits
PostPosted: Oct Sun 22, 2017 6:57 pm 
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On the subject of the Prince John, briefly, please suggest the best brand of coupling caps. .1uf and the 47nf.
You know I want the best. Thanks Flip.

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 Post subject: Re: Clever 6V6 audio amp with two novel circuits
PostPosted: Oct Sun 22, 2017 9:28 pm 
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john8750 wrote:
On the subject of the Prince John, briefly, please suggest the best brand of coupling caps. .1uf and the 47nf.
You know I want the best. Thanks Flip.

A little reading:
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/compon ... itors.html
http://aeaaudio.com/audiophile-quality- ... le-re-cap/
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/v ... phile8.htm
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=42756.0
https://www.v-cap.com/salvatorecomments.html

Mundorf:
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/mu ... gJc3_D_BwE

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 Post subject: Re: Clever 6V6 audio amp with two novel circuits
PostPosted: Oct Sun 22, 2017 10:33 pm 
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Hey Flip:
I never seem to hear or see anything about SE using ultralinear.... only in PP.

Then today I see Edcor has SE OTs with a SG tap.
Is that tap actually in the center or at the 40% point as in PP?
What do you know about SE UL?
And especially about how does it change the reflected impedance choice? Does a 5k 6V6 then change to a 4k or such?
That's what we did on the 6V6 PP. We changed from 10k to 8k w/UL right?
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Clever 6V6 audio amp with two novel circuits
PostPosted: Oct Sun 22, 2017 10:36 pm 
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john8750 wrote:
On the subject of the Prince John, briefly, please suggest the best brand of coupling caps. .1uf and the 47nf.
You know I want the best. Thanks Flip.
I thought you did use good capacitors. Which ones did you use?


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 Post subject: Re: Clever 6V6 audio amp with two novel circuits
PostPosted: Oct Sun 22, 2017 10:45 pm 
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Flipperhome wrote:
john8750 wrote:
On the subject of the Prince John, briefly, please suggest the best brand of coupling caps. .1uf and the 47nf.
You know I want the best. Thanks Flip.
I thought you did use good capacitors. Which ones did you use?



The .1 is yellow axial and the .047 is brown radial. Maybe they are the best. Is there an audio grade that would be better?
I will read about them, from Peter.

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 Post subject: Re: Clever 6V6 audio amp with two novel circuits
PostPosted: Oct Sun 22, 2017 10:51 pm 
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Ahhh... here's a guy's amp that used SE UL
http://diyaudioprojects.com/Schematics/ ... Schematic/

and here's his bias optimization study. Looks like B+=272v and bias is 12.5v using Edcor UL 5k OT:
http://diyaudioprojects.com/Technical/6 ... imization/

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 Post subject: Re: Clever 6V6 audio amp with two novel circuits
PostPosted: Oct Sun 22, 2017 10:59 pm 
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Flipperhome wrote:
john8750 wrote:
On the subject of the Prince John, briefly, please suggest the best brand of coupling caps. .1uf and the 47nf.
You know I want the best. Thanks Flip.
I thought you did use good capacitors. Which ones did you use?



Thanks to peter, here is the exact types:
.1 Mallory Metalized Polyester.
.047 Orange Drop.
FB cap Silver Mica.


Would like to change to JFX Polypropylene.

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 Post subject: Re: Clever 6V6 audio amp with two novel circuits
PostPosted: Oct Sun 22, 2017 11:05 pm 
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Pbpix wrote:
Ahhh... here's a guy's amp that used SE UL
http://diyaudioprojects.com/Schematics/ ... Schematic/

and here's his bias optimization study. Looks like B+=272v and bias is 12.5v using Edcor UL 5k OT:
http://diyaudioprojects.com/Technical/6 ... imization/



I have seen the Lacewood before. That is where I saw the 6SN7 pre-driver.
UL, why not.

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 Post subject: Re: Clever 6V6 audio amp with two novel circuits
PostPosted: Oct Sun 22, 2017 11:07 pm 
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john8750 wrote:

Would like to change to JFX Polypropylene.

These only cost a few hundred each:
Select .47uf .... lol
https://www.vhaudio.com/v-cap.html

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 Post subject: Re: Clever 6V6 audio amp with two novel circuits
PostPosted: Oct Sun 22, 2017 11:17 pm 
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Pbpix wrote:
john8750 wrote:

Would like to change to JFX Polypropylene.

These only cost a few hundred each:
Select .47uf .... lol
https://www.vhaudio.com/v-cap.html



That's a good LOL.
They must think I am one of those audio- fools.
My limit is 2 bucks each.

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 Post subject: Re: Clever 6V6 audio amp with two novel circuits
PostPosted: Oct Sun 22, 2017 11:34 pm 
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Pbpix wrote:
Hey Flip:
I never seem to hear or see anything about SE using ultralinear.... only in PP.

Then today I see Edcor has SE OTs with a SG tap.
Is that tap actually in the center or at the 40% point as in PP?
What do you know about SE UL?
And especially about how does it change the reflected impedance choice? Does a 5k 6V6 then change to a 4k or such?
That's what we did on the 6V6 PP. We changed from 10k to 8k w/UL right?
The principle of UL doesn't depend on the topology but since it's intended purpose was a 'linear' amplifier they naturally used push pull, since push pull starts off with at least a 20 dB advantage over SE, in the original designs. That's why, in 'Hi-Fi' designs, you don't see anything in the way of SE, until the Japanese WE craze started.

I'm not sure how you 'calculate' the shift in load impedance with UL. I normally just take the recommended load from folks who have already done the work. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Clever 6V6 audio amp with two novel circuits
PostPosted: Oct Sun 22, 2017 11:46 pm 
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john8750 wrote:
Flipperhome wrote:
john8750 wrote:
On the subject of the Prince John, briefly, please suggest the best brand of coupling caps. .1uf and the 47nf.
You know I want the best. Thanks Flip.
I thought you did use good capacitors. Which ones did you use?

Thanks to peter, here is the exact types:
.1 Mallory Metalized Polyester.
.047 Orange Drop.
FB cap Silver Mica.


Would like to change to JFX Polypropylene.
They should all be polypropylene or silver mica.

It's not worth spending hundred of dollars on exotic caps which, even if they were somehow 'better', are like worrying about the added weight of a gnat landing on an aircraft carrier affecting operations. You might be able to find a scale somewhere that could detect it but, otherwise, you'll never know.


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 Post subject: Re: Clever 6V6 audio amp with two novel circuits
PostPosted: Oct Mon 23, 2017 12:12 am 
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OK Flip. I will cancel my $3,000 order. You caught me just in time.
Seriously, I will go with the JFX. Situation closed....
BTW, the Little Prince has the best. Remember, that's when you
guided through ' Just Radios' for the best I could do.

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 Post subject: Re: Clever 6V6 audio amp with two novel circuits
PostPosted: Oct Mon 23, 2017 7:36 am 
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I updated the print to reflect that either 6V6 or the 6AQ5 are interchangeable here.
I tested it with the 6AQ5 and listening to it tonight .. and of course everything's fine.

I modified the 6SH7 cathode resistor.
I also removed the .05 uf input cap because when I connected the Mp3 player output directly, the volume went noticeably up a bit.

BTW: I just went back the last few pages and replaced earlier versions w/this latest one.

The reason is that Google robots grab and post these schematics... and I'd rather let them get only the latest version instead of a bunch with minor early versions that might confuse ppl who copy and try them.
( I know... how thoughtful of me... lol)
Image

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Last edited by Pbpix on Oct Tue 24, 2017 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Clever 6V6 audio amp with two novel circuits
PostPosted: Oct Mon 23, 2017 10:48 pm 
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Pbpix wrote:
I updated the print to reflect that either 6V6 or the 6AQ5 are interchangeable here.
I tested it with the 6AQ5 and listening to it tonight .. and of course everything's fine.

I modified the 6SH7 cathode resistor.
I also removed the .05 uf input cap because when I connected the Mp3 player output directly, the volume went noticeably up a bit.

BTW: I just went back the last few pages and replaced earlier versions w/this latest one.

The reason is that Google robots grab and post these schematics... and I'd rather let them get only the latest version instead of a bunch with minor early versions that might confuse ppl who copy and try them.
( I know... how thoughtful of me... lol)
Attachment:
6SH7 amp.png



Good job peter. What would happen if you remover the other .05 coupler?

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