Forums :: Resources :: Features :: Photo Gallery :: Vintage Radio Shows :: Archives :: Books
Support This Site: Contributors :: Advertise


It is currently Dec Thu 13, 2018 10:54 am


All times are UTC [ DST ]





Post New Topic Post Reply  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: 50W Stromberg Carlson Amp. Is it worth it?
PostPosted: Dec Thu 06, 2018 10:44 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep Sat 29, 2018 8:42 pm
Posts: 336
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. L8R 3H4
Mars wrote:
No one has mentioned the McIntosh mono block amps from the 50's. Very hard to beat their sonic excellence as well as construction. Downside is their price these days. If you are a hi-fi purist needing quality tube amplification go McIntosh. As for the comment of solid state amps sounding too harsh, many of the high-end mosfet amps sound very nice. Again you have to spend $$$ to get the quality sound.

McIntosh amps are beautiful. Seen a few of their tuners and was impressed at the look (and at the sound on a YouTube demo video). Money seems to be a factor in many of my antique 'whims'. :roll:

Might look into MOSFET to at least gain a better understanding of what it is...

Quote:
Now with Class D you can have quality and power with no heat, for very small $.

-David

Yes, a Class D amp is extremely power efficient, but I question the quality of such an amp. As far as I know, Class D amps are used for car bass amps, generally, as such amps don't deliver good quality sound above bass frequencies. At least this was true about 15 years ago when I had my last Class D amp for my car sub. Have things changed?

_________________
51' Crosley Alarm Clock Radio–D-25MN
53' Zenith Clock Radio–L622
58' DuMont–Sound Stage 200


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 50W Stromberg Carlson Amp. Is it worth it?
PostPosted: Dec Thu 06, 2018 11:18 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 4152
Location: Boston, MA USA
Indeed they have — Class D has taken over the market for sound reinforcement particularly in large venues, and has made serious inroads into high end “salon hi-fi.” As long as attention is paid to the linearity of the comparator (not difficult with today’s technology) there is no reason a Class D amplifier cannot meet or exceed the performance of Class A or AB, at far higher efficiency and lower cost.

-David


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 50W Stromberg Carlson Amp. Is it worth it?
PostPosted: Dec Fri 07, 2018 4:20 am 
Member

Joined: Aug Wed 24, 2011 4:35 am
Posts: 4189
Location: Sunnyvale CA
dberman51 wrote:
I disagree with this 100%. Hi-fi equipment reached commodity status 40 years ago. Anything from the “silver age” or later will deliver quality sound, often for very little money.


I might take mild exception to that. Component hi-fi split into two streams about then (early 70)s with the influx of pretty good "silver age" Japanese equipment. That split the audiophile crowd from the general consumer, where features and looking good in a living room, and the "spec wars" began. Component audiophile equipment is still being developed and still being improved, particularly in the area of digital audio and speakers, which continue to improve. Consumer hi-fi is more-or-less a commodity, with very little new development on the fideltity front, and lots of effort in to 5.1, 7.1 and sound effects for home theater. Many people today have never heard either a modern or vintage audiophile system, and are sometimes stunned when they do - I see it all the time. These are the same sorts and interest of people who bought horizontal console "brown coffins" instead of component hi-fi systems in the 50s/60's, they moved on to Japanese "receivers", etc, in the 70's and did get a big improvement - but not over contemporary component hi-fi systems.

Both of these pale ( size-wise) in comparison with portable audio, which is good enough for most people, and you can carry it in your pocket.


Quote:
Now with Class D you can have quality and power with no heat, for very small $.


There are some very good class D amplifiers that are competitive with the best consumer-level conventional amplifiers like the Yamaha, Adcom, etc. I am not aware of any that would be much of a match for the best hybrid analog amplifiers. But I will certainly grant you that they are smaller and more efficient compared to some of the hybrid monsters.

I might try putting together a family tree of audio, from radio to the main camps of audio today. One thing I would note - high fidelity has *always* been a tiny niche of a vastly larger market/universe, since it was invented in the 30's with the high-performance upright consoles. The first split happened in the mid-late 30s -- people trying for higher performance or "prestige" to brag about, and people who just wanted to listen to the radio for less money. Most people, then and now, didn't care much about how it sounded as long as it wasn't obviously objectionable.

Brett


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 50W Stromberg Carlson Amp. Is it worth it?
PostPosted: Dec Fri 07, 2018 2:05 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep Sat 29, 2018 8:42 pm
Posts: 336
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. L8R 3H4
Brett_Buck wrote:
dberman51 wrote:
I might try putting together a family tree of audio, from radio to the main camps of audio today.

Brett

I think it would make for a great thread!

_________________
51' Crosley Alarm Clock Radio–D-25MN
53' Zenith Clock Radio–L622
58' DuMont–Sound Stage 200


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 50W Stromberg Carlson Amp. Is it worth it?
PostPosted: Dec Fri 07, 2018 9:00 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 4152
Location: Boston, MA USA
I agree that the hi-fi market split in the 1970s but it seems to me that the esoteric branch gave rise to the "Aduiophile" market. I look at the evolution in terms of fundamentals: Once we had high quality silicon semiconductors in the late 1960s, with quality power devices of both p and n types, we could use the complementary-symmetry circuit to get very high quality audio performance at near commodity prices. With a good, stiff, well filtered power supply, this circuit can deliver high power, vanishing harmonic and IM distortion, excellent power response (frequency response at full power), good phase characteristics, and freedom from crossover distortion, the nasty-sounding characteristic of the earlier germanium designs.

The complementary-symmetry circuit was the foundation of the silver age and everything that followed until Class D.

What was the esoteric market to do? Nothing could sound any better, or any louder, than what you could get from the better mainstream (by the 1970s, Japanese) manufacturers. The amplifier ceased to be a factor in the equation, while speakers to this day have characteristic colorations which make them far more of a factor in what you hear, and a highly personal choice.

Yes, there is still activity in the esoteric audio market, and I see strange looking amplifiers at very high prices emerge periodically. But I'd put any of them up against my Marantz 2270, and I'm confident the Marantz would win.

-David


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 50W Stromberg Carlson Amp. Is it worth it?
PostPosted: Dec Fri 07, 2018 11:31 pm 
Member

Joined: Aug Wed 24, 2011 4:35 am
Posts: 4189
Location: Sunnyvale CA
dberman51 wrote:
What was the esoteric market to do? Nothing could sound any better, or any louder, than what you could get from the better mainstream (by the 1970s, Japanese) manufacturers.


I would have to disagree pretty strenuously on that one, but there's no point in arguing about it. You need to get out more.

0.0005% distortion into a specially-constructed resistor in laboratory conditions doesn't tell you much about how it works in real life when hooked to a real speaker.

Brett


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 50W Stromberg Carlson Amp. Is it worth it?
PostPosted: Dec Sat 08, 2018 1:57 am 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 4152
Location: Boston, MA USA
I agree — there were plenty of amplifiers with exemplary measurements that sounded terrible. In fact the early germanium amplifiers measured very well because they only were measured at full power where crossover distortion doesn’t apply. My points are 1) amplifier design was reduced to practice a long time ago, and 2) much too much attention is paid to amplifiers anyway, whereas speakers have a far greater impact on the sound and are not possible to characterize with specs.

-David


Top
 Profile  
 
Post New Topic Post Reply  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests



Search for:
Jump to:  
























Privacy Policy :: Powered by phpBB