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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Fri 07, 2011 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 526
Location: Shiner ,Texas
radionut is correct ..it is a Panasonic..I have no doubt... after opening it up.It is what it is ..I do not have the original speakers but as I said, I am running output through two seperate Motorola amps w/ EL90 's and dual speakers each.The sound of vinyl does sound better to my ears...I have several CD versions of some records and ..well..it sounds more" real"..corny as that sounds.I use the 8 track because I have a redone IDI one in my car..real nice with a fine tuning knob to adjust the capstan height to get rid of crosstalk/bleed.8 tracks are easy to handle in the car..and I love the look on peoples faces when they see it ...great conversation starter.


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PostPosted: Jan Fri 07, 2011 7:18 pm 
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Joined: Aug Sun 01, 2010 1:12 am
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Location: Minnesota
Sorry to hijack. Wasn't the intention. Panasonic all in ones were of a decent quality like everything else they made.


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PostPosted: Jan Fri 07, 2011 7:46 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 526
Location: Shiner ,Texas
This has been very informative "hijack'..I really enjoy folks putting their two cents in on the pros and cons of the different formats.I know that a few firms did incorporate the Dolby system into their 8 track units..but it was a case of too little too late.The fact that there was such a wide range in the quality of the actual 8 track tape...really is good to know.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Fri 07, 2011 9:22 pm 
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Joined: Jun Thu 17, 2010 5:41 pm
Posts: 1595
Location: Dawson Creek BC, Canada
Bryantenn wrote:
I have cassettes that were recorded almost four decades ago that are still playable. Show me an 8 track that old that's listenable now. I don't think so.

Bryan

I must disagree.I have 200+ 8 track tapes that not only do they play but they have quite good sound quality as well.
It is my opinion that vinyl is the absolute best format.Vinyl is followed by reel to reel, then 8-track because the wide tape offers better freq. response than cassette.8-tracks are followed by cassette.CDs and mp3 are the absolute bottom of the barrell as for as i'm conserned.I will not use either unless there is absolutely no other choice.

This is just my opinion.Feel free to agree or dissagree.

Nick

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Nick
Life without music would be a mistake-Nietzsche
I am not accountable for any damage this causes


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Sat 08, 2011 12:28 am 
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Joined: Aug Sun 01, 2010 1:12 am
Posts: 8348
Location: Minnesota
Agree with everything except the 8 tracks comments as you might expect. Everyone is touting how 8 tracks are so much wider and traveled at twice the speed of cassettes.

Remember folks, that wide 8 track tape was divided into 8 different segments. L+R channel for 4 different tracks. The cassette was divided into 4 segments. L+R for each side. The 8 track tape was completely used up for each track. The section of the head that actually plays the tape, was actually a little smaller on an eight track than a cassette. It had to run at 3 3/8 because at 1 7/8 speed, it was unlistenable.

I think 8 tracks are great as a novelty or to use for the factory radio in your 1966 T-Bird but they are not very high fidelity. Show me an eight track player with a real frequency response over 15k. Practically any cassette deck could do 16k with a half assed tape and the good ones with great tape could do up to 20k.


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 Post subject: Re: I have entered the Seventies..
PostPosted: Jan Sun 01, 2017 11:31 pm 
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Joined: Aug Thu 23, 2012 5:25 am
Posts: 127
Happy New Year! I just bought a JC Penney model 683-1769-00..after a
good cleaning I put a set of Sylvania floor speakers on it..and she sounds real good :mrgreen: She's an all-in-one..even the 8-track plays real good. Right now it's playing Readers Digest Glenn Miller 8-tracks and it sounds great!!


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Jan Mon 02, 2017 12:50 am 
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Joined: Dec Fri 23, 2016 12:08 am
Posts: 21
azenithnut wrote:
Oh, there were some very nice combos from the 1970s with 8-track decks. Some with very unique styling such as the Zenith "Wedge".

Here is an example.

http://www.instappraisal.com/content/ze ... reo-system

My mother bought one of these new back in 1978 when I was 11 years old. I was totally BLOWN AWAY at the sound this system gave! It has 15 watts per channel and the Allegro 2000 speakers have a decent 8 inch woofer and horn tweeter with a bass reflex port.

Very quality stuff here. Plus a style all its own. Though, I got very sick of the Barry Manilow 8-track tape my mother had....

-Steve



I have that same system. the zenith allegro. that thing is HUGE. heavy. I found it along the road. problem is the turntable is trashed. and dust cover is gone. would be nice to repair it. I even have all 4 original speakers. 3 work. 1 the woofer blew. I have a doner. same speaker different style box. I like it.


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 Post subject: Re: I have entered the Seventies..
PostPosted: Jan Mon 02, 2017 12:56 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 10034
Location: Clinton Twp. Mi.
Saw the post subject and thought it was about age. I thought hell a lot of us here at ARF have done that.
Stan Ski


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 Post subject: Re: I have entered the Seventies..
PostPosted: Jan Mon 02, 2017 1:17 am 
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Location: Dayton Ohio
wow another old thread brought back from the dead.

age? I'm afraid I'll never reach 70

-Steve

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Radio Interests
-Zenith
-Sparton
-Pre-War FM
Consoles and floor models, the bigger, the better!


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 Post subject: Re: I have entered the Seventies..
PostPosted: Jan Mon 02, 2017 1:22 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 7117
Location: Beaver Falls, PA. USA
A couple of the Sears/Silvertone compact stereos of the early 1970s, the ones with model numbers starting with 540, were made by Harmon-Kardon.

Steve, I'm going to have to live until I am at least 90, to finish everything in my Restoration Pile!

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 Post subject: Re: I have entered the Seventies..
PostPosted: Jan Mon 02, 2017 2:59 am 
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Joined: Sep Mon 10, 2012 10:41 pm
Posts: 3633
Location: Phoenix, AZ
some of my 70's stuff:

The Fisher 215 (no pic)
Pioneer SX-3600 (at my brothers house in his shop).

Pioneer SX-434 (sold on ebay)
Image

Technics SA-5460
Image

Harman Kardon 50+ (broken dial string)
Image

Nikko STA-5010
Image

Sansui G-5500
Image


I had a Sansui 7070 I bought it from a thrift store for $27 and sold it on ebay for $175 I am still kicking myself for selling it.

More stuff I had but sold on ebay:
Technics SA-301
Sansui 200

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Everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about.


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 Post subject: Re: I have entered the Seventies..
PostPosted: Jan Mon 02, 2017 6:13 pm 
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Joined: Jun Sun 15, 2014 11:04 pm
Posts: 557
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
Just a little more history here:

In 1965, I was the proud owner of a Muntz 4-track car stereo. I had moved to Hartford, CT for a job. When I went to buy a couple of new tapes at Arrow Auto Radio in West Hartford, the salesman told me that 4-tracks were obsolete and that I should buy one of the new 8-track players. He showed me that the 4-track music choices were less than half of the ones for 8-track. I bought a Lear Jet Stereo 8, AM-FM and 8 track in dash mounted with four speakers.

I was so impressed, that I wanted to be a part of that new technology. I asked the owner of Arrow, Dan Yellen, to hire me. He said the only opening he had was as an automotive tape deck and radio installation technician. There was no training for that, but I figured it all out in a short time. So easily so, that Dan wanted me to be a technician for a warrantee repair station that he would open in the building next door. I went for training in New York City, where the trainees were introduced to Bill Lear (creator of the Lear Jet, and the Lear Jet Stereo 9). Within a month, I was up to my shoulders in Stereo 8's and other car music devices. Among them, was a recently introduced Norelco cassette player meant for dictation, and home use.

About a year later, Lear Jet had introduced a home 8-track player and Norelco had introduced a stereo player for the car which played one cassette at a time, like the Lear Jet Stereo 8 and the older Muntz 4-track. Muntz had introduced a home unit which played all sizes of 4-track and recorded as well. Muntz likely held on that long, due to fact that their units could handle 1, 2 and 4 hour cassettes.

My memories of the quality between the three in 1966 was that the 4-track sounded the best in terms of fidelity, with the 8-track and being next and the cassette being last. Of course, in time, that changed.

By 1971, Bell & Howell had introduced a hi-fidelity stereo cassette player for home use which would play 6 (or so) cassettes sequentially without intervention, and a year later, an adapter could be had for that machine that would play 8 cassettes continuously, flipping them over to play the other side, and keep playing endlessly until someone stopped the machine.


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 Post subject: Re: I have entered the Seventies..
PostPosted: Jan Tue 03, 2017 3:05 am 
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Joined: Dec Mon 08, 2008 8:27 pm
Posts: 7288
Location: alameda,CA
To me the mid 70's through mid 80's was the golden era of the Japanese electronics industry. Some of the stereo systems from Sony and others were unmatched even by today's standards.

But there was a lot of crap too. But what's interesting to me is that even some of the garbage sounded decent. I worked on a mid 70's zenith console last year. The electronics and cabinet were as cheap as could possibly be imagined. The speakers were actually car speakers. Yet it sounded amazing.


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 Post subject: Re: I have entered the Seventies..
PostPosted: Jan Tue 03, 2017 5:02 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 12440
Location: Fernandina Beach, FL
One of my contributions to the 70s...

Image

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Don


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 Post subject: Re: I have entered the Seventies..
PostPosted: Jan Tue 03, 2017 5:55 pm 
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Joined: Mar Sun 11, 2007 6:55 am
Posts: 8623
Location: Mission Viejo, southern California
We use our 1984 equipment almost every day - Yamaha pre-amp and amplifier, Magnepan speakers. I also bought a Yamaha cassette deck back then. It needs a belt, but it worked well with the alternative to Dolby (SRX or ??) noise reduction. We have an 8 track player-recorder bought a few years ago as part of a group of equipment and some of those tapes (e.g. Abba) sound good.

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many of my radios http://s269.photobucket.com/user/FSteph ... t=3&page=1


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 Post subject: Re: I have entered the Seventies..
PostPosted: Jan Wed 04, 2017 1:48 am 
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Joined: Aug Sun 01, 2010 1:12 am
Posts: 8348
Location: Minnesota
JBL L36's, L100's, 4312A's, 77 Lancers, ADS L880's, Marantz 1250, 2238B, 2220B, Harman Kardon 730, Sansui AU517, Empire 698, Garrard Lab 80, Dual 1218, Miracord S45, Technics SLD2, 3 reel to reels, more speakers, more receivers, more turntables, a couple of cassette decks and cd players plus more stuff I've forgotten I have. I have been flipping a bunch of stuff to get stuff I wanted, now it's getting time to thin the herd someday.


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 Post subject: Re: I have entered the Seventies..
PostPosted: Jan Fri 06, 2017 9:09 pm 
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Joined: Jun Sun 15, 2014 11:04 pm
Posts: 557
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
Here's a rare pair: 1972 HH Scott 433 Digital Tuner and 490 Amplifier. The tuner was one of the first to digitize the tuning process. Could be tuned with a up/down button, or cards that would be inserted into a slot. The matching amplifier was 100 Watts per channel.

The second and third photos are of our daily user. A 1976 Sansui QRX-7001 Quad Receiver Amplifier and a set of matching SP-2000 speakers. Still works perfectly. Nothing compares to the sound of discrete 4 channel audio. Even the synthesized audio sounds superior to two channel stereo.


Attachments:
Scott tuner amp.JPG
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photo (168).JPG [ 123.6 KiB | Viewed 345 times ]
photo (169).JPG
photo (169).JPG [ 108.9 KiB | Viewed 345 times ]


Last edited by startgroove on Jan Sat 07, 2017 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: I have entered the Seventies..
PostPosted: Jan Fri 06, 2017 10:57 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 4479
Location: 253 Blanche St. Plymouth, MI USA
THis stuff is coming back strongly ! Since the original posting here in 2011 we have re-branded our MARC "Antique Radio" show to a "Vintage Electronics " show and had 520 folks in the door last year. We expect over 600 this year ! Most newbies are under 50 who never owned or used a record player of any kind. They dont know anything about them but want to play "vinyl", which to them is 33rpm only. They dont know what a 16, 45 or 78 record is.
So, get this stuff out NOW if you want to sell any of it, clean all the switches and controls, pilot lamps as needed, get a turntable going and speakers (rotten foam surrounds?) and put it up on Facebook or Craigslist or at a show like ours here in Michigan January 28 in Farmington Hills (www.thevee.org has info).
This is the time for VINTAGE STEREO gear ! Have fun fixing it for folks and / or make money selling it. THere is a LOT of demand in most metro areas for servicers of this stuff. Advertise on CL... you'll have a lot of business.

Mark Oppat


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Jan Sat 07, 2017 6:01 am 
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Joined: Feb Mon 06, 2012 7:24 pm
Posts: 1796
Location: Beautiful Gold Country California
Arran wrote:
I would take an eight track over a Phillips style compact cassette any day of the week if they have the same content.
ggregg wrote:
I totally disagree. The eight track concept was doomed by physics. When you have a tape and only one reel, you are going to have problems, not matter how you look at it.
I side with Arran. There was more high-end 8-track recording decks made than you think. The best ones looked, operated as if and were often as heavy as a radio station cart machine and played for thousands of hours at a stretch.

Once chrome tape came out in back-lubricated loop format i.e. capable of 250 nWm recordings with 50μs EQ but recorded with a 185 nWm signal at 35μs EQ as EE tape would be seven years later - causing a much needed bump in the top end - lots of people gravitated to that before it died in 1985.

They even dubbed a few 8-track titles at 7-1/2 IPS - and one run of which I have three copies is Patsy Cline's Greatest Hits in the same kind of quad mix as any other title originally recorded on 3 tracks - very dry vocal and tracks subdued on the fronts and the reverb to the vocal along with elevated backing track volume in the rears.

Being both quad AND 7-1/2 IPS AND recorded on Chrome tape (like I said - the kind they pushed in the last days of the radio station stereo cart) - each Q8 program carries three songs, meaning Tape 1 is Side A first half and second half and Tape 2 is Side B first half and second half.

I defy ANYBODY to be able to tell it from a 7-1/2 IPS stereo reel decoded off a normal-bias tape with no Dolby NR on a BAD deck nevermind e.g. a Technics 858.
ggregg wrote:
Head alignment was also a big problem and even if set correctly, the chances of it going out of alignment was just too great.
If the head moved, yes. The last ones had fixed heads with odd on one side (or one head if it was play-only) and even on the other (or other head) and rotated a cam behind it to pick up odd or even side of the head or odd or even discrete heads. They made so many of `em hoping to preserve the 8-track cartridge format after 1985 that they used the same ones in e.g. Tascam or Fostex quarter inch 15 IPS garage band recorders (A8 or E8) where if you get the very first run - the heads have a 3-3/4 gap on them vs the halfway-inbetween 7-1/2 and 15 IPS of the later versions - done so that the 7-1/2 wouldn't sound TERRIBLE from headgaps being too big and 15 IPS wouldn't sound terrible from the gaps being too small.
ggregg wrote:
If eight track was so good, how come they never made expensive decks for them or even if they're were a few, why didn't people embrace them?
For the same reason DMM LPs never caught on or PCM audio-only LaserDiscs had to wait seven years for CDs to be perfected and then it took another seven years after THAT for CDs to get any kind of decent market share.

And then there's the ElCaset and the F-1 PCM recorder that ran off a VCR and the FM instrumentation recorders that people used to use with their old beat up quarter inch tape to record 4 channels at once (I'm in the process of demodulating several so bands that recorded on the format can put out their once-mono-only garage band taped in Dolby 4.0) etc. But you couldn't overdub on the FM recorders anymore than you could a cartridge recorder - but for laying down live tracks when the only thing that was going to happen was you were going to play it back in a week and mix to baseband mono - nobody cared until 40 yrs later when their grungy old mono master was simply too lo-fi for modern audiences.

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2 kinds of men/tape. Low Noise/Wide Range.
LN=kind. WR=abrasive. Engineers=same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: I have entered the Seventies..
PostPosted: Jan Sun 08, 2017 1:46 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3806
Location: Boston, MA USA
8-track inherited the same fatal flaw from broadcast carts: The endless loop design means that the outside of the tape pack is forced to rotate more slowly than the inside, so each layer of tape is constantly rubbing against the layers on either side. Even though the tape is a special lubricated formulation it wears out very quickly. When I was in broadcasting we had to replace the tape in our carts regularly.

That's the reason why you find relatively few used 8-track cartridges in good condition.

Cassettes have separate feed and takeup packs so do not suffer this problem.

-David


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