Forums :: Resources :: Features :: Photo Gallery :: Vintage Radio Shows :: Archives :: Books
Support This Site: The Souvenir Shop :: Contributors :: Advertise


It is currently May Thu 23, 2013 8:24 am


All times are UTC [ DST ]



Post New Topic Post Reply  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: V-M MODEL 714 6V6 OUTPUT STAGE
PostPosted: Feb Fri 17, 2012 7:31 pm 
Member

Joined: Mar Sat 05, 2011 9:27 pm
Posts: 34
I am working on a Voice of Music Model 714 tape deck and noticed that the 6V6 output stage is a little different. The voice coil of the output transformer is in series with the Cathode to ground. There is also a -20v bias supply that is hooked to the control grid circuit. I have not seen this arrangement before. Can someone explain the ratianale behind this?
Thanks


Attachments:
V-M 714 6V6.jpg
V-M 714 6V6.jpg [ 51.82 KiB | Viewed 764 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: V-M MODEL 714 6V6 OUTPUT STAGE
PostPosted: Feb Fri 17, 2012 7:51 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2309
Location: Boston, MA USA
I've never seen this before but it is a way to get negative feedback into the output stage for lower distortion. The -20V supply is fixed grid bias for the output stage. Common on high-power amplifiers but uncommon with a single-ended 6V6 stage like this, which would usually use cathode bias.

-David


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: V-M MODEL 714 6V6 OUTPUT STAGE
PostPosted: Feb Fri 17, 2012 8:30 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Mon 18, 2010 2:13 am
Posts: 4392
Location: Dayton Ohio
That is an interesting and odd way to add negative feedback. Usually, its fed to the cathode of a previous amplifier stage.

As they are using the cathode circuit for the NFB, they added a bias supply to properly bias the tube.

Quite different :wink:

-Steve

_________________
Radio Interests
-Zenith
-Sparton
-Pre-War FM
Consoles and floor models, the bigger, the better!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: V-M MODEL 714 6V6 OUTPUT STAGE
PostPosted: Feb Sat 18, 2012 2:39 am 
Member

Joined: Sep Thu 23, 2010 6:37 am
Posts: 3951
Location: Powell River BC
Could you post the rest of the circuit? My TR-1 just has the 710, not the later one you have.

The 710 output stage is different in that they provide the audio current fed to the
R/P head during record, as well as monitor audio, or not, so the 6V6 has to
work properly over a very wide range of plate impedance .

_________________
de
VE7ASO VE7ZSO
Amateur Radio Literacy Club. May we help you read better.
Steve Dow
ve7aso@rac.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: V-M MODEL 714 6V6 OUTPUT STAGE
PostPosted: Feb Sat 18, 2012 3:02 am 
Member

Joined: Mar Sat 05, 2011 9:27 pm
Posts: 34
Here is the complete schematic.


Attachments:
V-M 714 complete.jpg
V-M 714 complete.jpg [ 68.19 KiB | Viewed 699 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: V-M MODEL 714 6V6 OUTPUT STAGE
PostPosted: Feb Sat 18, 2012 3:10 am 
Moderator

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 18146
Location: Detroit, MI USA
Didn't some McIntosh amplifiers in the 50's or 60's have the audio output cathodes connected to a separate winding on the output transformer as well?

_________________
Dennis


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: V-M MODEL 714 6V6 OUTPUT STAGE
PostPosted: Feb Sat 18, 2012 3:52 am 
Member

Joined: Nov Sat 27, 2010 6:15 pm
Posts: 3601
Indeed, somehow my last reply got toasted. VM had some great ways to get a lot of music out of a few parts. Noted for their sturdy record changers, they also made a lot of pretty good and sturdy inexpensive record players which were much loved by kids in th 50's and 60's.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: V-M MODEL 714 6V6 OUTPUT STAGE
PostPosted: Feb Sat 18, 2012 3:54 am 
Member

Joined: Oct Wed 14, 2009 6:36 am
Posts: 3031
Location: New York USA
There is another negative feedback path from the tone control through a 100K resistor to the cathode of the 12AX7.
Don


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: V-M MODEL 714 6V6 OUTPUT STAGE
PostPosted: Feb Sat 18, 2012 4:42 am 
Member

Joined: Sep Thu 23, 2010 6:37 am
Posts: 3951
Location: Powell River BC
BikenSwim wrote:
There is another negative feedback path from the tone control through a 100K resistor to the cathode of the 12AX7.
Don


That treble control may affect the recording too. Another question, since some versions are
two track stereo, is the stereo playback staggered or inline?

Those VM units were popular for schools, as they could play turntables and mikes for PA.

I may have a few of these machines that would have been *forgotten* were is not for
the query. :evil:

_________________
de
VE7ASO VE7ZSO
Amateur Radio Literacy Club. May we help you read better.
Steve Dow
ve7aso@rac.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: V-M MODEL 714 6V6 OUTPUT STAGE
PostPosted: Feb Sun 19, 2012 3:22 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 5763
Location: Beaver Falls, PA. USA
I had one of those when I was a teenager! It was a pretty good unit, and built like the proverbial brick outhouse.

_________________
Tim KA3JRT


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: V-M MODEL 714 6V6 OUTPUT STAGE
PostPosted: Feb Sun 19, 2012 5:42 pm 
Member

Joined: Nov Sat 27, 2010 6:15 pm
Posts: 3601
Mr. Detrola wrote:
Didn't some McIntosh amplifiers in the 50's or 60's have the audio output cathodes connected to a separate winding on the output transformer as well?


Sure did, and they still command a premium and sound wonderful!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: V-M MODEL 714 6V6 OUTPUT STAGE
PostPosted: Feb Sun 19, 2012 6:39 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov Fri 10, 2006 12:24 am
Posts: 365
Location: Thornhill, Ontario
O/P tube cathode resistor (with parallel bypass cap) to ground via the OPT secondary is seen in some tube radios. The NFB achieved is quite small but, of course, free! However, if you want to add global NFB to an earlier stage, e.g. to a triode stage cathode, the OPT secondary may be wrongly phased (choose the global NFB option in this case.) Also, the global NFB negates the typical radio tone control as it's inside the NFB loop... I just take the TC out as who wants top-cut on an AM radio?!
Cheers,
Roger

_________________
Roger Jones, P.Eng, SMIEEE.
Thornhill, Ontario
Ontario Vintage Radio Assoc. http://www.ovra.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: V-M MODEL 714 6V6 OUTPUT STAGE
PostPosted: Feb Wed 22, 2012 1:40 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 7879
Location: Warner Robins, GA
I have a V-M 710 reel to reel and they do indeed get a lot of sound out of a single 6V6.


Top
 Profile  
 
Post New Topic Post Reply  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests



Search for:
Jump to:  










Privacy Policy :: Powered by phpBB