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 Post subject: Re: Almost Robot life - what fools 'they' must belive us to
PostPosted: Aug Sun 13, 2017 3:42 am 
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Flipperhome wrote:
We can no longer think like people did 4500 years ago. Unfortunately for us, there aren't any of them left around to ask for help in explaining how they did it.

Damn, always a hitch, isn't there? :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Almost Robot life - what fools 'they' must belive us to
PostPosted: Aug Sun 13, 2017 6:04 am 
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fifties wrote:
Flipperhome wrote:
We can no longer think like people did 4500 years ago. Unfortunately for us, there aren't any of them left around to ask for help in explaining how they did it.

Damn, always a hitch, isn't there? :wink:
Yep.

Btw, if you want to study it, here's one of the latest theories on how they were constructed (based on Jean-Pierre Houdin's internal ramp theory).


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 Post subject: Re: Almost Robot life - what fools 'they' must belive us to
PostPosted: Aug Sun 13, 2017 8:38 am 
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Flipperhome wrote:
fifties wrote:
Flipperhome wrote:
We can no longer think like people did 4500 years ago. Unfortunately for us, there aren't any of them left around to ask for help in explaining how they did it.

Damn, always a hitch, isn't there? :wink:
Yep.

Btw, if you want to study it, here's one of the latest theories on how they were constructed (based on Jean-Pierre Houdin's internal ramp theory).

Uh, you forgot the link...

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 Post subject: Re: Almost Robot life - what fools 'they' must belive us to
PostPosted: Aug Sun 13, 2017 8:56 am 
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fifties wrote:
Flipperhome wrote:
Yep.

Btw, if you want to study it, here's one of the latest theories on how they were constructed (based on Jean-Pierre Houdin's internal ramp theory).

Uh, you forgot the link...
LOL oops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj0RnvIl9cQ


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 Post subject: Re: Almost Robot life - what fools 'they' must belive us to
PostPosted: Aug Sun 13, 2017 8:33 pm 
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ChrisW6ATV wrote:
Pbpix wrote:
there was a giant message saying: "Good afternoon Peter"
OMG... yikes ... WHY?

If you used your real name on Facebook (as I would expect almost everyone to do), then that is "why" the message was there.

Having said that, I will admit that I am slightly annoyed with our local ham radio repeater that says "Good afternoon" (or morning/evening) along with its call sign. Why would a machine wish that its users are having a good day? I should think, though: The answer, ultimately, is that the programmer of the repeater has such wishes, and the repeater itself is just carrying the message. No different from an answering-machine or voice-mail message, really.


This exactly. I think we shouldn't consider that a machine is trying to become more like a human, but to see that the programmer who coded the robot just wanted him to be kind to us and say hi to us. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Almost Robot life - what fools 'they' must belive us to
PostPosted: Aug Mon 14, 2017 12:55 am 
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Flipperhome wrote:
fifties wrote:
Flipperhome wrote:
Yep.

Btw, if you want to study it, here's one of the latest theories on how they were constructed (based on Jean-Pierre Houdin's internal ramp theory).

Uh, you forgot the link...
LOL oops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj0RnvIl9cQ

In the beginning of this video they show the ramp and say that the wheel had not yet been invented.
So.. exactly what dynasty or when did the Egyptians begin using the wheel?
They were known to have chariots such as those found in king Tut's tomb?
Right?

Guess this is the answer?
"The Wheel
Evidence indicates that Egyptians made use of potter's wheels in the manufacturing of pottery from as early as the 4th Dynasty.[44] Chariots, however, are only believed to have been introduced by the invasion of the Hyksos in the Second Intermediate period;[45] during the New Kingdom era, chariotry became central to Egypt's military."

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 Post subject: Re: Almost Robot life - what fools 'they' must belive us to
PostPosted: Aug Mon 14, 2017 1:50 am 
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stubbornman wrote:

This exactly. I think we shouldn't consider that a machine is trying to become more like a human, but to see that the programmer who coded the robot just wanted him to be kind to us and say hi to us. :)

But why?

Humans say "hello" because they are truly capable of genuine kindness... Right?
A machine inherently cannot ever truly do that.
So when a programmer coding a machine/robot put code in there to try to fake this feeling bothers me. I know the machine can't do it.. so the programer is automatically exposed. And then I wonder what is the suspicious motive of the company that has the programmer do this? I always suspect that they have a motive of trying to coddle me into trusting the machine to put me at ease .. and then they try to SELL me something or pilfer something from me.
So I do not appreciate the phony personification attempts.
Id rather that the robot simply be programed to just do its job without the phony niceties.

It's not that I don't like niceties... of course I do. But i don't want FAKE/mechanical niceties.
No... I only respond positively to true honest human niceties.

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 Post subject: Re: Almost Robot life - what fools 'they' must belive us to
PostPosted: Aug Mon 14, 2017 3:29 am 
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Pbpix wrote:
I always suspect that they have a motive of trying to coddle me into trusting the machine to put me at ease .. and then they try to SELL me something

Of course, this is absolutely true.

It is just one more version of what every business on Earth is explicitly designed for: To achieve profits by receiving money from customers, ideally as much money as possible with as little effort as possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Almost Robot life - what fools 'they' must belive us to
PostPosted: Aug Mon 14, 2017 4:04 am 
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ChrisW6ATV wrote:
Pbpix wrote:
I always suspect that they have a motive of trying to coddle me into trusting the machine to put me at ease .. and then they try to SELL me something

Of course, this is absolutely true.

It is just one more version of what every business on Earth is explicitly designed for: To achieve profits by receiving money from customers, ideally as much money as possible with as little effort as possible.
It's what every human being on the planet does if they have any common sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Almost Robot life - what fools 'they' must belive us to
PostPosted: Aug Mon 14, 2017 5:43 am 
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Pbpix wrote:
stubbornman wrote:

This exactly. I think we shouldn't consider that a machine is trying to become more like a human, but to see that the programmer who coded the robot just wanted him to be kind to us and say hi to us. :)

But why?

Humans say "hello" because they are truly capable of genuine kindness... Right?
A machine inherently cannot ever truly do that.
So when a programmer coding a machine/robot put code in there to try to fake this feeling bothers me. I know the machine can't do it.. so the programer is automatically exposed. And then I wonder what is the suspicious motive of the company that has the programmer do this? I always suspect that they have a motive of trying to coddle me into trusting the machine to put me at ease .. and then they try to SELL me something or pilfer something from me.
So I do not appreciate the phony personification attempts.
Id rather that the robot simply be programed to just do its job without the phony niceties.

It's not that I don't like niceties... of course I do. But i don't want FAKE/mechanical niceties.
No... I only respond positively to true honest human niceties.
These are all your ASSUMTIONS, not fact. Any "human" who behaves cordially would naturally program his web page, or whatever, the same way.


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 Post subject: Re: Almost Robot life - what fools 'they' must belive us to
PostPosted: Aug Mon 14, 2017 7:22 am 
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Flipperhome wrote:
These are all your ASSUMTIONS, not fact. Any "human" who behaves cordially would naturally program his web page, or whatever, the same way.

Well... the whole point is that I enjoy REAL human honest expressions .. not phony ones even if they come from a human.
If you met what seemed like a nice woman and she spoke to you in sincere kind words that you judged to be sincere you'd feel more inclined to trust her with your heart/money/love etc.... right?
But if you suspected she was a phony gold-digger or such you would not trust her.

I know right off the bat that NO robot is capable of real-honest and true sincerity .... so I will never accept any of that 'programed' phony stuff.
So ... I say " do not do it" ... not for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Almost Robot life - what fools 'they' must belive us to
PostPosted: Aug Mon 14, 2017 7:44 am 
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Pbpix wrote:
Flipperhome wrote:
These are all your ASSUMTIONS, not fact. Any "human" who behaves cordially would naturally program his web page, or whatever, the same way.

Well... the whole point is that I enjoy REAL human honest expressions .. not phony ones even if they come from a human.
If you met what seemed like a nice woman and she spoke to you in sincere kind words that you judged to be sincere you'd feel more inclined to trust her with your heart/money/love etc.... right?
But if you suspected she was a phony gold-digger or such you would not trust her.

I know right off the bat that NO robot is capable of real-honest and true sincerity .... so I will never accept any of that 'programed' phony stuff.
So ... I say " do not do it" ... not for me.
My comment still stands. It's your ASSUMPTION that the 'computer' is insincere. It simple reflects the demeanor of the person who controls it, including your "nice woman (who speaks) to you in sincere kind words that you judged to be sincere."


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 Post subject: Re: Almost Robot life - what fools 'they' must belive us to
PostPosted: Aug Mon 14, 2017 9:58 am 
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I'll bet one dozen cookies that Peter does not own one of the new gadgets that responds to voice inputs to issue weather reports, control the sprinklers, and perhaps critique one's choice of socks.

Don't like all this new-fangled stuff? -----don't use it.

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 Post subject: Re: Almost Robot life - what fools 'they' must belive us to
PostPosted: Aug Mon 14, 2017 12:07 pm 
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pixellany wrote:
I'll bet one dozen cookies that Peter does not own one of the new gadgets that responds to voice inputs to issue weather reports, control the sprinklers, and perhaps critique one's choice of socks.

Don't like all this new-fangled stuff? -----don't use it.


Hear, hear! Well spoken Mark.

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 Post subject: Re: Almost Robot life - what fools 'they' must belive us to
PostPosted: Aug Mon 14, 2017 10:28 pm 
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pixellany wrote:
I'll bet one dozen cookies that Peter does not own one of the new gadgets that responds to voice inputs to issue weather reports, control the sprinklers, and perhaps critique one's choice of socks.

Don't like all this new-fangled stuff? -----don't use it.

You'd be right about that... in a way.
I certainly DO like NEW systems, but I simply don't want them to pretend and try to feed me phony platitudes.
( I don't need a machine to do that.. thank you.)

So yes, I don't want Alexa or such.
.. but I sure appreciate and love GPS devices voice commands if I need driving directions etc.. and lots of "new-fangled stuff. I've been working in the computer industry since 1972 ...( that's 45 years) starting as a field service rep for large computerized microfilm generating and reading systems located at Bell Labs and the like. Installing and developing computer type-setting systems on personal computers well befroe the IBM PC appeared. ... So i AM a very techie guy.
And now of course I love my Galaxy S4 and I use the Google search w/voice recognition.
So easy... and fast.. quite accurate as well.

I love world facts and trivia and so often while in conversation with ppl I'll ask Google to verify what I'm talking about ....

... stuff with strange facts w/trivial content like this:

1.) The famous poet Edna St. Vincent Millay lived at 75-1/2 Bedford St. in Greenwich Village NYC....
The house is the narrowest house in NYC at only 9-1/2 ft wide.
Recently sold for $3.25 million.
Also... Cary Grant, John Barrymore, and Margaret Mead .... also at times lived there.

... and Ms. Millay's middle name St. Vincent was given to her at birth by her mother because her uncle's life was saved at St. Vincent's hospital in NYC.

-----------------
2.) The Goethals bridge from Elizabeth NJ to Staten Island was named after George Washington Goethals who was the chief engineer of the Panama Canal.

-----
3.) The bridge connecting Perth Amboy NJ to Staten Island is called the "Outerbridge Crossing".
Named for Eugenius Outerbridge, who was the 1st chairman of the NY Port Authority.
But he was also the promoter of the fiber board called Homasote.... and that his sister Mary was the founder of American Lawn Tennis... what is known as Tennis today.
She brought the game to the USA from Bermuda.
-------------

See? ... So anyone like me who goes around blabbing out crazy facts like that... definitely needs a quick source for reference to substantiate my fun facts.
It seems I have become a sort-of compendium of useless facts.

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 Post subject: Re: Almost Robot life - what fools 'they' must belive us to
PostPosted: Aug Mon 14, 2017 11:13 pm 
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Pbpix wrote:
1.) The famous poet Edna St. Vincent Millay lived at 75-1/2 Bedford St. in Greenwich Village NYC.... The house is the narrowest house in NYC at only 9-1/2 ft wide.
I looked at a picture of it and my first reaction was that they built a house in an alley-way. That turned out to be almost true.
Quote:
... the house was constructed in 1873 during a smallpox epidemic, for Horatio Gomez, trustee of the Hettie Hendricks-Gomez Estate, on what was the former carriage entranceway for the adjacent property...
By the way, it has more square footage (999 sq ft) than my first house (950 sq ft).

Curtis Eickerman

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 Post subject: Re: Almost Robot life - what fools 'they' must belive us to
PostPosted: Aug Mon 14, 2017 11:22 pm 
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Eickerman wrote:
Pbpix wrote:
1.) The famous poet Edna St. Vincent Millay lived at 75-1/2 Bedford St. in Greenwich Village NYC.... The house is the narrowest house in NYC at only 9-1/2 ft wide.
I looked at a picture of it and my first reaction was that they built a house in an alley-way. That turned out to be almost true.
Quote:
... the house was constructed in 1873 during a smallpox epidemic, for Horatio Gomez, trustee of the Hettie Hendricks-Gomez Estate, on what was the former carriage entranceway for the adjacent property...
By the way, it has more square footage (999 sq ft) than my first house (950 sq ft).

Curtis Eickerman

See? ... yep.. fun facts lead to more fun facts!
Thanks Curtis.

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 Post subject: Re: Almost Robot life - what fools 'they' must belive us to
PostPosted: Aug Tue 15, 2017 3:37 am 
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fifties wrote:
Flipperhome wrote:
We can no longer think like people did 4500 years ago. Unfortunately for us, there aren't any of them left around to ask for help in explaining how they did it.

Damn, always a hitch, isn't there? :wink:
Btw, if you've never seen that episode of SG1 I highly recommend it. It's the first of season 4 "Small Victories." I love shows that blend in action with humor and that one, in particular, excels at it.

IMO that clip ends a few seconds too soon. SG1 has their own crisis to deal with but Carter, their super intelligent science wizard, volunteers to go.

Hammond: Thor, with all due respect to your situation we need SG-1 here.
Carter: I could go, sir.
O'Neill: I don't know, Carter. You may not be dumb enough.
Carter: I think I can handle it, sir.

Another scene to my original point takes place onboard the Asgard ship when Carter is trying to study a replicator model and Thor explains it's based on Kiron technology.

Carter: How am I supposed to help figure out how to defeat kiron-based technology if I don't even know what a kiron is?
Thor: The Asgard would never invent a weapon that propels small weights of iron and carbon alloys by igniting a powder of potassium nitrate, charcoal and sulfur.
Carter: Okay, I get your point.
Thor: We cannot think like you.

Hahaha. There's that 'dumb enough' reference again.

Carter does come up with a, well, "stupid idea" to use the Asgard's most advanced prototype warship on a self destruct suicide mission, hoping to take out the replicators as well. Thor balks at wasting their most advanced ship, not even fully completed yet, until Carter reminds him that's what they came to SG1 for: "stupid ideas."

It works!

Carter: We did it!
Thor: It was your stupid idea, Major Carter.

Gracious of Thor to give credit where credit it due. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Almost Robot life - what fools 'they' must belive us to
PostPosted: Aug Tue 15, 2017 4:23 am 
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Flipperhome wrote:
fifties wrote:
Flipperhome wrote:
We can no longer think like people did 4500 years ago. Unfortunately for us, there aren't any of them left around to ask for help in explaining how they did it.

Damn, always a hitch, isn't there? :wink:
Btw, if you've never seen that episode of SG1 I highly recommend it. It's the first of season 4 "Small Victories." I love shows that blend in action with humor and that one, in particular, excels at it.

IMO that clip ends a few seconds too soon. SG1 has their own crisis to deal with but Carter, their super intelligent science wizard, volunteers to go.

Hammond: Thor, with all due respect to your situation we need SG-1 here.
Carter: I could go, sir.
O'Neill: I don't know, Carter. You may not be dumb enough.
Carter: I think I can handle it, sir.

Another scene to my original point takes place onboard the Asgard ship when Carter is trying to study a replicator model and Thor explains it's based on Kiron technology.

Carter: How am I supposed to help figure out how to defeat kiron-based technology if I don't even know what a kiron is?
Thor: The Asgard would never invent a weapon that propels small weights of iron and carbon alloys by igniting a powder of potassium nitrate, charcoal and sulfur.
Carter: Okay, I get your point.
Thor: We cannot think like you.

Hahaha. There's that 'dumb enough' reference again.

Carter does come up with a, well, "stupid idea" to use the Asgard's most advanced prototype warship on a self destruct suicide mission, hoping to take out the replicators as well. Thor balks at wasting their most advanced ship, not even fully completed yet, until Carter reminds him that's what they came to SG1 for: "stupid ideas."

It works!

Carter: We did it!
Thor: It was your stupid idea, Major Carter.

Gracious of Thor to give credit where credit it due. :lol:


Flip:
If you like weird science-fiction humor ... you may have read Frederick Brown's short stories "
( https://www.fantasticfiction.com/b/fredric-brown/ )

"Nightmares and Geezenstacks"
A story in that book is called

"Vengeance Fleet"

I haven't read it since the late 50s... so I may be off a bit.
But the basic story is about scientists seeing an unknown object from space that seems headed on a path for Earth ... and assuming, by its trajectory and speed that it must be an alien ship coming to Earth to annihilate us.

So they plan to develop a new ship here on Earth that could travel at the speed of light to go out and meet the attack ship and destroy it.
They know it will take 20 years to develop the ship.
They know it will take another 20 years ( at the speed of light) to travel to the point of meeting the oncoming enemy ship.

They build it and hire a pilot to fly it.

He takes off and travels for 20 years at the speed of light.
( in the meantime we on earth have discovered that as you travel at that speed you go back in time)

Anyway.. he keeps flying ... and after 20years, sure enough he eventually confronts the oncoming ship.... and as he gets real close to the enemy ship, just before he shoots to blow it up, he looks in the windshield at the other pilot... and it is himself.

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 Post subject: Re: Almost Robot life - what fools 'they' must belive us to
PostPosted: Aug Tue 15, 2017 5:33 pm 
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Pbpix wrote:
I just logged onto Facebook.. and there was a giant message saying: "Good afternoon Peter"
...
Hey.. Facebook people... cut it out.

Next time you see it, click on the down arrow on the right hand side and choose "Don't show this again." Done.

Why do they do this? Because

{
printf("$greeting, $user\n");
}

is easy. Also it tells you that you are logged in and to which account you are logged in. If you share a computer with someone else this can be important information. I suppose they could be more formal and note "You are currently logged in as Peter" except that doesn't actually give you any more information and is more intrusive than just a simple greeting.

This is pretty common if you think about it. Informal responses to common things tell you what's going on without elaborating on the facts. You use Google maps to get around? If I say navigate to home to my phone I want to know that a) what I said was heard and b) it was understood. What would you like the response to be?

Silence. Launch Google Maps; calculate and display the route?
or:
Reply "OK. Home"?
or something else (and what would that be)?

If you get email from your bank the message will start out "Dear Peter" using as much sincerity as a letter sent by an employee in your branch.

The top right portion of this page has your name displayed. Of course that's actually me typing the names in personally on every page view. :wink:


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