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 Post subject: Re: 1962 Cadillac for my next car, pipe dream or possibility
PostPosted: Jan Fri 12, 2018 8:59 pm 
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bobwilson1977 wrote:
Lastly, these old boats were never meant to haul ass. They're made for cruisin', meaning no need to have tons and tons of power.

Not all of us subscribe to that line of thought...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTz1NXdu2b0

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 Post subject: Re: 1962 Cadillac for my next car, pipe dream or possibility
PostPosted: Jan Fri 12, 2018 9:03 pm 
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Location: alameda,CA
Quote:
Not all of us subscribe to that line of thinking...


Well, my car handles like a whale on wheels. I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't want to haul ass in it for any length of time. The only way I'd consider it would be if I replaced the entire brake system as well as the whole suspension system.


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 Post subject: Re: 1962 Cadillac for my next car, pipe dream or possibility
PostPosted: Jan Fri 12, 2018 9:19 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
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Location: Litchfield Minnesota USA
bobwilson1977 wrote:
Quote:
Today it is fairly easy, but a bit costly, to install port fuel injection on just about any engine. Not only that, but you can delete the distributor entirely using the same available kits.


Either that or do what I could myself potentially do: Stick a modern engine in the car. Mine originally came with a 292 Y-block, which were notorious for blowing their main seals. It was replaced with a 60's era 302, which are rugged and very reliable. They made the 302 well into the 90's and of course by then they had electronic ignition, fuel injection, and other stuff. I could easily find one for $500 or so. But at the end of the day the old 302 in the car is very easy to work on and seldom has any problems. Parts are just ridiculously cheap too. I tend to buy re manufactured parts for it and in some cases the prices are dirt cheap. A water pump was $18. A remanufactured alternator was $45. And so on. All easy as apple pie to install. Lastly, these old boats were never meant to haul ass. They're made for cruisin', meaning no need to have tons and tons of power.


Problem with that is that it reduces the collector value, if one cares about that. I am one who doesn't care about that, but I was assuming the OP wants the OEM engine.
The Ford small block series, including the 302 is the most rugged and reliable V8 engine Ford ever produced. I'm no Ford fan, but I give a salute to that series of engines. I seriously considered installing one in one of my two 1946 Dodge Power Wagons because it would fit the narrow engine bay and it would be far more powerful. Never got around to it.
Mark D.


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 Post subject: Re: 1962 Cadillac for my next car, pipe dream or possibility
PostPosted: Jan Fri 12, 2018 9:49 pm 
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Location: alameda,CA
My car isn't worth a lot anyway. Its a four door which automatically means its worthless to collectors. The last time I had it appraised I think it came in at maybe $5k. Thus any changes to the drivetrain would probably not affect its already low value.


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 Post subject: Re: 1962 Cadillac for my next car, pipe dream or possibility
PostPosted: Jan Fri 12, 2018 10:15 pm 
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Joined: Feb Thu 08, 2007 2:32 pm
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Location: 06457
Back to the original question. If you live in the country fine, I drive major highways and the cars of today with their speed and handling will blow an average vintage car away. Make the Cadillac a shelf queen if you must have one. Went through many money pits with older cars dating back to 1949, grew up in that period of time. My son and I have two throwback race cars running at local tracks, they are 1970's Monte Carlos and parts availability is very difficult for 1970s parts.JMO


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 Post subject: Re: 1962 Cadillac for my next car, pipe dream or possibility
PostPosted: Jan Fri 12, 2018 10:21 pm 
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Posts: 1039
Location: Düsseldorf/Germany
Here is more news about these needle bearings/ roller bearings:
A german car magazine discribed many years ago the rebuilding
of carburetors.
The carburetor flap loves to stuck if the original bearing is worn.
You have a loss in power, the flap reacts too slow, not or only
sometimes.
You can get rid of this problem when the carb will be fixed with
high quality rollerbearings on all moving parts.
It was told that it is common on racing cars, the flap has to be
controlled very fast.
Rollerbearings are making moving part faster.

But this is a job for special companies with experience with this
stuff.

Regards,
SIXMILLION DOLLARMAN



Example for motorcycle:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/70ccm-TUNING-ZY ... 3d4d4865b7

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 Post subject: Re: 1962 Cadillac for my next car, pipe dream or possibility
PostPosted: Jan Sat 13, 2018 12:37 am 
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Location: Waterloo, Iowa
I'm not a carburetor expert, but know my way around them reasonably well. Have never heard of needle bearings for carburetors - maybe a translation problem relating to throttle shaft?

What does happen typically in high mileage carburetors, their Achilles Heel, is vacuum leaks, the throttle shaft starts to wear the pivot points in the air horn. This can't be compensated for or tuned around. The repair isn't super tough, simply drill out oversize and install bronze bushings, however this isn't part of a standard carburetor rebuild kit or the average tinkerer skill set.

Carburetors are fun and rewarding to work with and tune but it's really easy to see why they went away. You can get 20+ mpg in the old iron - even a Cadillac - but it takes some doing. It is amazing what retarded ignition timing and a misadjusted carburetor will do to fuel economy.


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 Post subject: Re: 1962 Cadillac for my next car, pipe dream or possibility
PostPosted: Jan Sat 13, 2018 2:27 am 
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LOL that's a solution searching for a problem...

Has no application in a run of the mill automotive carb... If shaft wears, in most instances it's far cheaper to replace carb... Maybe if were were talking a high $$$$ Boss 429 carb or similar, but never for garden variety carbs... It isn't going to save fuel and if it did, would be so miniscule one would never recoup the investment...

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 Post subject: Re: 1962 Cadillac for my next car, pipe dream or possibility
PostPosted: Jan Sat 13, 2018 8:31 am 
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Posts: 1039
Location: Düsseldorf/Germany
No fault!
Oversized bearings will be fixed not with a bronze bushing but with a
roller bearing!
Minor friction, that is the purpose.

But here are the most importent parts you have to store on your
clean dry attic to save your car for daily driving (close-by):

- spark plugs
- ignition switch
- good/new windshield, maybe with all window glass
- carburator
- modern generator with build-in regulator
- starter motor
- water pump
- gas pump (has to be always in the car - minimum an electrical gas pump for first aid)
- complete dual muffler system
- water and oil cooler
- throttle cable (has to be in the car)
- all belts with the right size (has to be in the car!)
- a set of head- and tail-lights
- a set of brake cylinders and brake shoes and drums

Hope I don`t forget something.

Regards,
SIXMILLION DOLLARMAN

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 Post subject: Re: 1962 Cadillac for my next car, pipe dream or possibility
PostPosted: Jan Sat 13, 2018 10:19 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3054
Location: Massachusetts
Have a modern drivetrain put in for reliability, GM LS?


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 Post subject: Re: 1962 Cadillac for my next car, pipe dream or possibility
PostPosted: Jan Sat 13, 2018 10:51 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 11078
Location: North of Mpls, Minnesota
Webber and some other carbs used roller bearings on the throttle shafts. On american carbs you just ream the bore and install bushings.

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: 1962 Cadillac for my next car, pipe dream or possibility
PostPosted: Jan Sat 13, 2018 11:21 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 7399
Location: Litchfield Minnesota USA
Why do people keep on going on about how the Mechanical's of mid 20th century cars are so inferior to todays engines that it is hopeless and should be replaced with a brand new and very costly conversion?
The OP insinuated that it would not be driven tens of thousands of miles every year, he has access to a pickup truck for his job.
Not only that, but if the original engine is rebuilt with some of the innovations in engine technology that have come about over the years incorporated into the rebuild it will be every bit as reliable as anything made today.
But even without the new innovations, if the engine is rebuilt properly it will run just fine for as long as he's ever likely to drive it.

I say to the O.P.; Go out and find what you're looking for. Make a decision on what it will be needed before you use it as a daily driver. If it is in excellent condition you don't need to do anything at all except buy it, insure it and drive it. Enjoy it. and if issues crop up, deal with it then.

Mark D.


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 Post subject: Re: 1962 Cadillac for my next car, pipe dream or possibility
PostPosted: Jan Sat 13, 2018 11:40 pm 
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Joined: Aug Wed 24, 2011 4:35 am
Posts: 3885
Location: Sunnyvale CA
Mark D wrote:
Why do people keep on going on about how the Mechanical's of mid 20th century cars are so inferior to todays engines that it is hopeless and should be replaced with a brand new and very costly conversion? .


Because that's the answer to his question? And in any case, a completely restoration to factory new condition will be much more expensive than a resto-mod, and if you *don't" to a complete restoration to factory new condition, it will be even more prone to problems, particularly for a person who is not a "car guy".

Considering that the two most glaring problems with the brand new car are both serious safety issues (no brakes and next-to-no consideration for crash protection), that seems like a fairly important point to address.

Brett


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 Post subject: Re: 1962 Cadillac for my next car, pipe dream or possibility
PostPosted: Jan Sat 13, 2018 11:45 pm 
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Location: Waterloo, Iowa
Mark D wrote:
Why do people keep on going on about how the Mechanical's of mid 20th century cars are so inferior to todays engines that it is hopeless and should be replaced with a brand new and very costly conversion?


This isn't really unusual, someone will drag a 50s era pickup out of a barn, then proceed to replace pretty much everything, from power steering to antilock brakes, automatic transmissions, power trains, etc. Those are all good things, very good things, but it would make more sense to just drop the body over an S-10 frame or something like that. To each his own, but oftentimes it's the antique radio equivalent of ripping out the guts of a nice console and installing a transistor radio.


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 Post subject: Re: 1962 Cadillac for my next car, pipe dream or possibility
PostPosted: Jan Sun 14, 2018 1:33 am 
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Posts: 1039
Location: Düsseldorf/Germany
You want disk brakes because of safety reeasons?
Here they are, see this video and followers.
(Sorry for the 1000 words starting with "f" :mrgreen: )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2la_wyN3Ts

What else you want more?

Regards,
SIXMILLION DOLLARMAN

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ScottyBeamMeUpThereIsNo 4/3-TV/AM OnEarth


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 Post subject: Re: 1962 Cadillac for my next car, pipe dream or possibility
PostPosted: Jan Sun 14, 2018 1:45 am 
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Location: Mission Viejo, southern California
Having spent money modifying cars, I'd suggest totaling-up the cost and then looking at what kind of nice new car that money could buy. Unlike old radios, which receive nicely and often sound good compared to modern plastic radios, the old cars are vastly out of step with modern cars in every way (yes, often including appearance). Now museum cars are a different issue. We toured the Nethercutt Collection with our guests yesterday, and those are worthy of restoration and preservation. They do drive them at least once a year on public roads and even I-210. The story about them driving a one of a kind and super-valuable Dusenberg through a Del Taco drive-in was fun to hear.

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 Post subject: Re: 1962 Cadillac for my next car, pipe dream or possibility
PostPosted: Jan Sun 14, 2018 3:38 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 7399
Location: Litchfield Minnesota USA
Chuck Braun wrote:
Hi all!

I'm not a "car guy", but I have owned in the past a '55 Buick Super coupe, '57 Buick Roadmaster 4-door hardtop, and a 1961 Cadillac Coupe De Ville. Now I'm driving a 2004 Nissan Murano with 110,000 on the clock, and the old girl's starting to show signs of corrosion setting in, and the cat converter is somehow just barely connecting to the front muffler. I'd like to image the car would be drivable for 5 years or so. If the engine or trans went out, I would part with my Nissan.

So, not fond of modern cars which can be hacked or tracked, but yet not wanting to go back to the metal dashboard and flat steering wheel, not to mention single-circuit brakes, I wondered... Could I find a drivable car in Arizona with a decent engine? I would have the Hydra-Matic rebuilt, as well as the drivetrain, suspension and brake systems. The fuel tank and lines would most likely need replacing. Add in radials and a carb rebuild... So, are '62 Cadillacs available for a reasonable price, that could be made into daily drivers? Or is it just too late and too expensive, I don't know.

My boss lets me drive the company 4x4 everyday for my job, so the Caddy could spend the Illinois winters in a nearly new garage. I would want to paint the car the blue color of the car in the movie "The Help". Oh, dang, the ragtop would be beaucoup bucks, but boy would it look good in the driveway.

Yeah, I know. The '62 still has the X-frame which means getting T-boned would clean my clock for sure. And it still has a generator, if I recall. But it does have dual-circuit brakes, which is really nice after having the brakes go out on both Buicks, fortunately at 15 mph. And it still uses the original OHV Cadillac V-8. The '63's look ooh so nice, but they used an engine design that lasted just 5 years. The '62 390 is the most refined original OHV, and I liked the sound of it on my '61.

So, is there anyone out there in Radio land who knows a thing or two about old cars, with some advice? I was hoping to be able to get a drivable, non-rust-bucket car for $25-30K, including all the mechanical refurbishing and a paint job. Is this a possibility, or something I should just forget about? Other possibilities include an '87 Pontiac Firebird and '80 Corvette. (Yeah, it's probably the slowest of all, and even though my wife isn't nuts about 'Vettes, I think she might be convinced if it had T-tops. She liked my old '61 Caddy...)

Like I said, I'm not a "car guy". I don't have friends who are. But it'd be nice to be able to listen to Sinatra on an 8-track, cruising in a '62 Coupe DeVille. Somebody please let me know straight up, whether or not the whole idea is feasible. I'm totally naïve about the old car business. I do, however, know how to rebuild a carb, change out a fuel pump, do dwell and timing, plugs and rotor. I've gone so far as to replace the valve lifters on my '77 Olds 260 V-8 back in '93, and make up brake lines and hone wheel cylinders back in the day. But when it come to pulling and rebuilding an engine or transmission, there's just no way. And as to the dollars and cents, I don't have a clue... Thanks for any who would advise me to keep the dream or can it. I've no more room for radios in my house, but I could count a '62 Caddy as a hybrid tube/transistor radio with a car built around it...


It appears to me that he was NOT asking about drum brakes being killers (not) or transmissions going out every week - they don't, or engines that can't handle highway speeds - ridiculous.
He recognizes the lack of having a cocoon around him so he can crash all he wants and not get killed, He says he's willing to accept those issues.

I also got way off topic. But back to the topic, Yes, Chuck, You CAN find a car of your choice in reasonable condition, maybe even in excellent condition. And after you find it, you will buy insurance from an insurance company that specializes in antique and collector cars because the collision and comp parts of the policy will be better than if you go to a standard insurance company.
You will wind up needing to replace or repair some things as time goes on. But it is not a nightmare. If I were you, I would install seat belts at a minimum and something could be done to also add a shoulder harness. But it is not required and if you are willing to take the chance, you don't have to have it.
And that's it Chuck. Anything else is way out in left field, my posts included. Way beyond what you were looking for, I believe. Too many people sending horror story messages. If you want to do it, DO IT. If you find that it isn't working out for you, there's no law that says you can't change your mind and sell it. I say, go for it. Have fun with it. Enjoy it. Things will need repair now and then, but so do modern cars. Have you noticed that there are auto parts stores and auto repair shops down just about every street these days.

And look at the thread about a person wanting to buy a BRAND NEW BMW and people are saying how expensive they are to operate. And they are telling the truth.

Mark D.


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 Post subject: Re: 1962 Cadillac for my next car, pipe dream or possibility
PostPosted: Jan Sun 14, 2018 8:48 pm 
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Joined: Jan Sun 07, 2018 6:32 pm
Posts: 6
Mark D wrote:
Chuck Braun wrote:
Hi all!

I'm not a "car guy", but I have owned in the past a '55 Buick Super coupe, '57 Buick Roadmaster 4-door hardtop, and a 1961 Cadillac Coupe De Ville. Now I'm driving a 2004 Nissan Murano with 110,000 on the clock, and the old girl's starting to show signs of corrosion setting in, and the cat converter is somehow just barely connecting to the front muffler. I'd like to image the car would be drivable for 5 years or so. If the engine or trans went out, I would part with my Nissan.

So, not fond of modern cars which can be hacked or tracked, but yet not wanting to go back to the metal dashboard and flat steering wheel, not to mention single-circuit brakes, I wondered... Could I find a drivable car in Arizona with a decent engine? I would have the Hydra-Matic rebuilt, as well as the drivetrain, suspension and brake systems. The fuel tank and lines would most likely need replacing. Add in radials and a carb rebuild... So, are '62 Cadillacs available for a reasonable price, that could be made into daily drivers? Or is it just too late and too expensive, I don't know.

My boss lets me drive the company 4x4 everyday for my job, so the Caddy could spend the Illinois winters in a nearly new garage. I would want to paint the car the blue color of the car in the movie "The Help". Oh, dang, the ragtop would be beaucoup bucks, but boy would it look good in the driveway.

Yeah, I know. The '62 still has the X-frame which means getting T-boned would clean my clock for sure. And it still has a generator, if I recall. But it does have dual-circuit brakes, which is really nice after having the brakes go out on both Buicks, fortunately at 15 mph. And it still uses the original OHV Cadillac V-8. The '63's look ooh so nice, but they used an engine design that lasted just 5 years. The '62 390 is the most refined original OHV, and I liked the sound of it on my '61.

So, is there anyone out there in Radio land who knows a thing or two about old cars, with some advice? I was hoping to be able to get a drivable, non-rust-bucket car for $25-30K, including all the mechanical refurbishing and a paint job. Is this a possibility, or something I should just forget about? Other possibilities include an '87 Pontiac Firebird and '80 Corvette. (Yeah, it's probably the slowest of all, and even though my wife isn't nuts about 'Vettes, I think she might be convinced if it had T-tops. She liked my old '61 Caddy...)

Like I said, I'm not a "car guy". I don't have friends who are. But it'd be nice to be able to listen to Sinatra on an 8-track, cruising in a '62 Coupe DeVille. Somebody please let me know straight up, whether or not the whole idea is feasible. I'm totally naïve about the old car business. I do, however, know how to rebuild a carb, change out a fuel pump, do dwell and timing, plugs and rotor. I've gone so far as to replace the valve lifters on my '77 Olds 260 V-8 back in '93, and make up brake lines and hone wheel cylinders back in the day. But when it come to pulling and rebuilding an engine or transmission, there's just no way. And as to the dollars and cents, I don't have a clue... Thanks for any who would advise me to keep the dream or can it. I've no more room for radios in my house, but I could count a '62 Caddy as a hybrid tube/transistor radio with a car built around it...


It appears to me that he was NOT asking about drum brakes being killers (not) or transmissions going out every week - they don't, or engines that can't handle highway speeds - ridiculous.
He recognizes the lack of having a cocoon around him so he can crash all he wants and not get killed, He says he's willing to accept those issues.

I also got way off topic. But back to the topic, Yes, Chuck, You CAN find a car of your choice in reasonable condition, maybe even in excellent condition. And after you find it, you will buy insurance from an insurance company that specializes in antique and collector cars because the collision and comp parts of the policy will be better than if you go to a standard insurance company.
You will wind up needing to replace or repair some things as time goes on. But it is not a nightmare. If I were you, I would install seat belts at a minimum and something could be done to also add a shoulder harness. But it is not required and if you are willing to take the chance, you don't have to have it.
And that's it Chuck. Anything else is way out in left field, my posts included. Way beyond what you were looking for, I believe. Too many people sending horror story messages. If you want to do it, DO IT. If you find that it isn't working out for you, there's no law that says you can't change your mind and sell it. I say, go for it. Have fun with it. Enjoy it. Things will need repair now and then, but so do modern cars. Have you noticed that there are auto parts stores and auto repair shops down just about every street these days.

And look at the thread about a person wanting to buy a BRAND NEW BMW and people are saying how expensive they are to operate. And they are telling the truth.

Mark D.


Chuck,it sounds like you ARE a car guy. You've owned those 50's-60's cars before,and since you know what you're getting into,it's no big deal.

Every time,I think about getting an old hobby car,like a Z28,I go test-drive a new pony car,(do they still call them that?) and I think to myself,"I wish I had one of these in 1970".

The new hot rods are light years ahead of the old ones. In every way. Except the ability to diagnose/repair them at home.

Good luck finding the right car. Those Caddies are very stylish,inside and out. Beautiful cars.


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 Post subject: Re: 1962 Cadillac for my next car, pipe dream or possibility
PostPosted: Jan Mon 15, 2018 7:04 pm 
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Joined: Feb Thu 08, 2007 2:32 pm
Posts: 11217
Location: 06457
Mark D wrote:
Why do people keep on going on about how the Mechanical's of mid 20th century cars are so inferior to todays engines that it is hopeless and should be replaced with a brand new and very costly conversion?
The OP insinuated that it would not be driven tens of thousands of miles every year, he has access to a pickup truck for his job.
Not only that, but if the original engine is rebuilt with some of the innovations in engine technology that have come about over the years incorporated into the rebuild it will be every bit as reliable as anything made today.
But even without the new innovations, if the engine is rebuilt properly it will run just fine for as long as he's ever likely to drive it.

I say to the O.P.; Go out and find what you're looking for. Make a decision on what it will be needed before you use it as a daily driver. If it is in excellent condition you don't need to do anything at all except buy it, insure it and drive it. Enjoy it. and if issues crop up, deal with it then.

Mark D.

Why would you want a 50 year old car, you can't bring back the past and running the BMW will be a lot cheaper to maintain in a long run then the repair and fix daily of the ancient, fatiqued vehicles. The engineering of today makes my 1941 Plymouth appear to be a death trap.


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 Post subject: Re: 1962 Cadillac for my next car, pipe dream or possibility
PostPosted: Jan Mon 15, 2018 7:35 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 7399
Location: Litchfield Minnesota USA
hoffies2 wrote:
Why would you want a 50 year old car, you can't bring back the past and running the BMW will be a lot cheaper to maintain in a long run then the repair and fix daily of the ancient, fatiqued vehicles. The engineering of today makes my 1941 Plymouth appear to be a death trap.


I don't want a 50 year old car at this time. I have two 1970 Oldsmobils that I never drive. I just recently sold a 1975 Chevy Vega that I hadn't driven since the early 1990's. I like the Olds Toronados, but I can't keep them inside so they are rapidly returning to from whence they came. Still recoverable, but going fast.
Soon they'll just be for parts.

No, I don't want an old car at this time. HOWEVER the O.P. does seem to want to have one and I can understand why too. I like the old cars. I used my first 1948 Dodge Power Wagon for over ten years for contract snow plowing. In summer I used it to pull the trailer that my dirt track stock car rode to the race track and back on. It never gave me any problems at all. Not even a water pump or belt or radiator problem. Wasn't very fast, but a surefire stump puller!

The O.P. wants the kind of car he wants for his own reasons. It isn't for me or anyone to tell him that he is or is not making a mistake. He can buy the car of his dreams and might regret it. But he is the one to decide and he can always get rid of it if it turns out that he doesn't want it after all. He can probably recoup all his money too, unless the collector market changes before he does.

So I am encouraging him to follow his dream. I have followed all of my dreams throughout my life. It has cost me plenty of dinero, but life is to be enjoyed. I could be a wealthy man at this point in life if I had horded my income and didn't follow my dreams, and my wife's dreams - hey, we both have our dreams and we both follow them.
So, I get by, not much money around, but I've done everything I've ever wanted to do. I hope the O.P. can follow his dream also.
I still say, GO FOR IT!
It's NOT about the money, it's about life!

By the way, I disagree about the cost of running an older American car versus driving a Beemer. Or any German car. Read the posts on this forum about a guy who thought he might like to have a BMW. You really do need to be wealthy to operate one of Germany's finest.

Mark D.


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