Forums :: Resources :: Features :: Photo Gallery :: Vintage Radio Shows :: Archives :: Books
Support This Site: Contributors :: Advertise


It is currently Jun Wed 20, 2018 8:38 am


All times are UTC [ DST ]





Post New Topic Post Reply  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: 4000 to be Laid Off @ Tesla
PostPosted: Jun Wed 13, 2018 7:51 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 17431
Location: Albuquerque, NM 87123
Forum Rules prohibit saying anything bad about anyone, so I want you to imagine the stars below as my opinions of Elon Musk and his "Inventions."

**********************************************************************************


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4000 to be Laid Off @ Tesla
PostPosted: Jun Wed 13, 2018 8:14 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 27558
Location: SoCal, 91387
The other side of the coin, of course, is that those 4,000 ppl HAD jobs for a period, that they might not O/W have obtained. He's simply doing a cost-cutting method to improve profitability. Last I recall, profit is why businesses exist in the first place.

_________________
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\He Who Dies With The Most Radios Wins//////////////////


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4000 to be Laid Off @ Tesla
PostPosted: Jun Wed 13, 2018 8:18 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec Mon 08, 2008 8:27 pm
Posts: 8667
Location: alameda,CA
... no different than any other automaker, including the big ones who've had to reshuffle their workforce. In fact as someone who works in the tech industry this happens a lot, sometimes to
The tune of 1000's at a time. I'm sure this fills the anti-EV folks with glee but seeing as how GM, Ford, VW, BMW, and everyone else has fleets of EVs about to hit the market were just seeing the beggining.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4000 to be Laid Off @ Tesla
PostPosted: Jun Wed 13, 2018 9:23 pm 
Member

Joined: Sep Wed 03, 2008 1:24 am
Posts: 933
What's funny is that the idea of an inventor or businessman starting a successful company from scratch is as American as apple pie and Thomas Edison. So why is it some take glory at seeing a guy like Elon Musk fail? Is it because he didn't start a fast food company? I thought America meant a lot more than fast food. Or because he doesn't fit a certain profile? Entrepreneurs have always come from diverse backgrounds and tend not to fit a certain "profile". Some may be jerks, but there are a lot of jerks in the world that have done far worse things than start businesses. Last I checked, Musk did nothing illegal (unlike, say, Ken Lay).

I have nothing vested in Tesla. They may very well fail, in which case they should be allowed to close up shop like any other company. Life will go on, as will the American economy. Businesses fail all the time, and the overwhelming majority of new businesses do not last 5 years. And even successful companies have layoffs, another concept that is as American as the stock market.

Puzzling....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4000 to be Laid Off @ Tesla
PostPosted: Jun Wed 13, 2018 9:44 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1580
Location: Silver Spring MD, USA
fifties wrote:
He's simply doing a cost-cutting method to improve profitability. Last I recall, profit is why businesses exist in the first place.


"Given that Tesla has never made an annual profit in the almost 15 years since we have existed, profit is obviously not what motivates us."

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-is-laying-of ... 1826768633

_________________
Crawls Backward When Alarmed: Guitars, amps, vintage radios and more.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4000 to be Laid Off @ Tesla
PostPosted: Jun Wed 13, 2018 10:01 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec Mon 08, 2008 8:27 pm
Posts: 8667
Location: alameda,CA
Quote:
So why is it some take glory at seeing a guy like Elon Musk fail?


Its complicated. Part of it comes from the fact that Musk is sort of a brash, loudmouthed blowhard, which is common in Silicon Valley and so many just don't like him.

The other folks who go after Tesla are the same kinds of people who are a part of the anti-science sort of contingency that didn't exist during the time of Edison, when technology and advances in science were praised.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4000 to be Laid Off @ Tesla
PostPosted: Jun Wed 13, 2018 10:25 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 17431
Location: Albuquerque, NM 87123
I would like to see anyone who can honestly and accurately describe Elon Musk's "inventions", Hyperloop and SpaceX to name two, and NOT have to use terms like fraud, scam, bamboozle, swindle, con-game, etc.

His Tesla sales are pathetic simply because the car did not live up to the hype. If he had a good car he would be hiring 4000 more workers.

His SpaceX program is Star Trek, from start to finish; nothing is based on reality or current technology.

His Hyperloop transportation system can't and won't work, now or anytime in the foreseeable future. He perpetuated his myth even further by having a contest to build the cars for it (which he had already implied he designed).

If he were only spending his own money, it would be laughable.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4000 to be Laid Off @ Tesla
PostPosted: Jun Wed 13, 2018 10:40 pm 
Member

Joined: Jul Mon 24, 2017 3:27 pm
Posts: 105
Location: 01450
Can anyone say 'troll'?

_________________
- http://www.nixies.us/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4000 to be Laid Off @ Tesla
PostPosted: Jun Wed 13, 2018 10:57 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec Mon 08, 2008 8:27 pm
Posts: 8667
Location: alameda,CA
Tell you what Johnny.... Go out and found your own space company and hire the engineers, do the marketing, raise the capital, contact NASA to get some contracts and then launch a huge rocket that can go into space and then land... backwards. But you've got to do it better so that you can prove what Mr. Musk did wrong.

The time starts now. Get back to us with your results....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4000 to be Laid Off @ Tesla
PostPosted: Jun Wed 13, 2018 11:21 pm 
Member

Joined: Aug Wed 24, 2011 4:35 am
Posts: 4027
Location: Sunnyvale CA
fifties wrote:
The other side of the coin, of course, is that those 4,000 ppl HAD jobs for a period, that they might not O/W have obtained. He's simply doing a cost-cutting method to improve profitability. Last I recall, profit is why businesses exist in the first place.


Most other businesses do the same sorts of things, but they do not do it while simultaneously claiming everybody else are idiots. That's why he rubs people the wrong way.

Brett


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4000 to be Laid Off @ Tesla
PostPosted: Jun Wed 13, 2018 11:26 pm 
Member

Joined: Jul Sun 09, 2006 3:11 am
Posts: 5432
Location: Aurora, CO
4000 people "share" the vision and invest their lives trying to make it work. When the vision stumbles or fails it's always the "little people" who get the pink slips. Sort of like Theranos. That's what's wrong with the big thinkers who view their workforce as pawns in their games.

_________________
ex nihilo nihil fit


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4000 to be Laid Off @ Tesla
PostPosted: Jun Wed 13, 2018 11:37 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jun Fri 20, 2014 7:10 pm
Posts: 835
For years, I had been cheering for somebody to build a practical electric car. When I heard that Tesla was designing cars using cells developed for laptops, rather than undertaking the extra expense of designing custom battery packs, I thought the idea genius. However, I am not ashamed to admit that I know nothing about the economics of building cars (others than that many have failed due to the high R&D and startup costs).

I wonder:

Did Tesla's cars really need all of the advanced software and features that they have in order to make them functional?

Would Musk be successful if he had stuck to just building cars?

Are the economics of cars today such that all electric cars are loss leaders for their respective manufacturers, regardless of design or price point?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4000 to be Laid Off @ Tesla
PostPosted: Jun Wed 13, 2018 11:44 pm 
Member

Joined: Aug Wed 24, 2011 4:35 am
Posts: 4027
Location: Sunnyvale CA
Alfredo_T wrote:

Would Musk be successful if he had stuck to just building cars?

Are the economics of cars today such that all electric cars are loss leaders for their respective manufacturers, regardless of design or price point?


It's not even that, Musk is chasing federal and state government subsidies, without which none of his companies are remotely viable. Many/Most/all of his statements are intended to encourage "enthusiasts"/fanboys to be cheering sections for him, pressuring and loobying for continuation of these subsidies (space access being the most legitimate, and hyperloop being the most ridiculous, by far). Making cars has long been a very-low-margin enterprise and it is very difficult to compete head-to-head with the existing manufacturers, his theory is ti use the environmental angle and the absurd fantasies about imminent ecological disaster to keep the subsidies going as long as possible.

Brett


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4000 to be Laid Off @ Tesla
PostPosted: Jun Thu 14, 2018 12:05 am 
Member

Joined: Sep Wed 03, 2008 1:24 am
Posts: 933
AuroraOldRadios wrote:
4000 people "share" the vision and invest their lives trying to make it work. When the vision stumbles or fails it's always the "little people" who get the pink slips. Sort of like Theranos. That's what's wrong with the big thinkers who view their workforce as pawns in their games.

Theranos was a fraudulent company from the get-go. Holmes had absolutely no background in medical devices, but thanks to her family connections and the ability to look good in a turtleneck, she got gobs of funding to produce - essentially nothing. Their testing machines didn't work, and likely never would work. Instead, they deliberately and knowingly defrauded the SEC by refusing to disclose that nearly all of their testing services were outsourced to existing testing labs.

Tesla actually did make cars. Maybe they didn't catch on as well as Musk had hoped; maybe the costs were larger than anticipated. That happens all the time in business, not just Musk's businesses.

Regarding the subsidies: yes, I can understand how that can be a turnoff. Ideally, these companies would not lobby local and state governments and Congress for money; governments should be leveling the playing field, not necessarily picking winners and losers. However, Tesla is not the only company that has benefited from government subsidies, nor is it even the only auto company. GM and Chrysler took advantage of even larger government bailouts.

And I know for a fact that noone that posts in this forum is qualified to know whether Space-X or Hyperloop are feasible.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4000 to be Laid Off @ Tesla
PostPosted: Jun Thu 14, 2018 12:18 am 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3864
Location: Cortez, Colorado
Back in 2002 gas was about $1.60 a gal and lots of people bought SUVs, and 12 miles to the gallon was OK. In 2007 gas was $3.50 a gal and now people want small and electric cars. I remember a guy on the radio saying "They are preparing us for $2.50 being the norm" and he was correct. Now SUVs are big sellers again. I know yall remember 1972 and 1980. It will happen again, and that's when Telsa will be hiring like crazy.
Last I looked (2008), it cost about $4 to fill up a model S with the big battery.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4000 to be Laid Off @ Tesla
PostPosted: Jun Thu 14, 2018 12:44 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3453
It's a mistake to paint all government subsidies with the same negative brush. Yet some would still do this if every subsidy turned out to be wildly successful. It's the same with foreign manufacturing. Such simple rejections throw out the baby with the bath water.

For example, without smart phones priced to where they are ubiquitous, ATT, Verizon, Sprint, etc would never have invested in towers to provide ubiquitous coverage. Smart phones are not subsidized, but they are produced in countries with cheap labor. Yet without cheap labor, only the affluent would be able to afford smart phones. With only affluent buyers there wouldn't have been enough market for those massive investments in infrastructure. As a result, it's now gotten to the point where unbelievably inexpensive smart phones are available to folks who are not affluent, as previously discussed on this very forum. We wouldn't have gotten to this point if the infrastructure wasn't already here for the cheap phones to be worth having. Cheap labor made it happen.

Both cars and windmills utilize subsidies instead of foreign manufacturing (yes, I know, there is some of that). The principle is the same, though. Promoting the growth of infrastructure in turn promotes more innovation and cost savings. Without subsidies and foreign manufacturing, significant infrastructure wouldn't happen. That's the good that comes out of subsidies.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4000 to be Laid Off @ Tesla
PostPosted: Jun Thu 14, 2018 12:59 am 
Member

Joined: Nov Wed 30, 2016 7:35 pm
Posts: 1187
Location: Sunbury, Ohio 43074
Quote:
Go out and found your own space company and hire the engineers, do the marketing, raise the capital, contact NASA to get some contracts and then launch a huge rocket that can go into space and then land... backwards. But you've got to do it better so that you can prove what Mr. Musk did wrong.

I was trying to figure out how to respond to the previous rather one sided and ill informed post, but the above did it way better than I could have.

Lest we forget, every major industry, with few exceptions, was begun with some, a lot, or a TON of government (tax) dollars to support the initial research and/or efforts. Some succeed, some fail. But without a variety of efforts, all would fail.

Anyone remember NASA? Do you think without NASA and all of OUR dollars that went into it, we'd have ..... umm let's say transistors, IC's, Tang, Velcro, Ceramics and about 1000 other things that came out of the space program and private industry commercialized?

If only our government would have stuck to this model ... fund pure research, using tax money, and then turn it over to industry so we can all benefit.

As for Tesla particularly, it may or may not suceed but it provided, and provides, a model that others have followed. Will it get crushed by "big money" (the autos) like they crushed the 100mpg carburator? who knows.... but at least Musk made the effort.

I, for one, applaud that effort

_________________
He who dies with the most sheer tonnage of ancient test gear, wins!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4000 to be Laid Off @ Tesla
PostPosted: Jun Thu 14, 2018 1:06 am 
Member

Joined: Aug Tue 02, 2011 10:47 pm
Posts: 1679
Location: New York, NY
Brett_Buck wrote:
[Musk] ...claiming everybody else are idiots. That's why he rubs people the wrong way.

Brett

He'd fit right in here.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4000 to be Laid Off @ Tesla
PostPosted: Jun Thu 14, 2018 1:47 am 
Member

Joined: Jun Sat 09, 2007 8:14 am
Posts: 3246
Location: Florida
If you don't think Space X has done anything :

http://www.spacex.com/missions

As for Tesla or any other electric car, I don't want one unless it can be used as conveniently as my good old 97 Lesabre.

RRM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4000 to be Laid Off @ Tesla
PostPosted: Jun Thu 14, 2018 2:03 am 
Member

Joined: Jul Sun 09, 2006 3:11 am
Posts: 5432
Location: Aurora, CO
lexrageorge wrote:
AuroraOldRadios wrote:
4000 people "share" the vision and invest their lives trying to make it work. When the vision stumbles or fails it's always the "little people" who get the pink slips. Sort of like Theranos. That's what's wrong with the big thinkers who view their workforce as pawns in their games.

Theranos was a fraudulent company from the get-go. Holmes had absolutely no background in medical devices, but thanks to her family connections and the ability to look good in a turtleneck, she got gobs of funding to produce - essentially nothing. Their testing machines didn't work, and likely never would work. Instead, they deliberately and knowingly defrauded the SEC by refusing to disclose that nearly all of their testing services were outsourced to existing testing labs.

Tesla actually did make cars. Maybe they didn't catch on as well as Musk had hoped; maybe the costs were larger than anticipated. That happens all the time in business, not just Musk's businesses.

Regarding the subsidies: yes, I can understand how that can be a turnoff. Ideally, these companies would not lobby local and state governments and Congress for money; governments should be leveling the playing field, not necessarily picking winners and losers. However, Tesla is not the only company that has benefited from government subsidies, nor is it even the only auto company. GM and Chrysler took advantage of even larger government bailouts.

And I know for a fact that noone that posts in this forum is qualified to know whether Space-X or Hyperloop are feasible.

Considering the current MSRP of Tesla products- $74500-135000, they hardly deserve any subsidies. Who can afford to buy them even with fellow tax payers footing the bill for tens of thousands in subsidies? Musk is an expert at milking government subsidies. A 2015 LA Times article says 4.9 billion dollars. Here's another quote:
"The value of the subsidies afforded per Tesla car sold is over $22,000 per car in the U.S., and as much as $48,000 per car in California." https://seekingalpha.com/article/308546 ... its-friend

"And I know for a fact that noone that posts in this forum is qualified to know whether Space-X or Hyperloop are feasible." I don't know what to make of that statement.

_________________
ex nihilo nihil fit


Top
 Profile  
 
Post New Topic Post Reply  [ 24 posts ]  Moderator: Alan Voorhees Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests



Search for:
Jump to:  
























Privacy Policy :: Powered by phpBB