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 Post subject: Re: the new F I R E movement
PostPosted: Sep Fri 14, 2018 4:06 am 
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bobwilson1977 wrote:
Thus I intend to keep saving, keep living cheaply, and hopefully be done with working at an office by the time I'm 50.

What are you intending to do once you reach 50?

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 Post subject: Re: the new F I R E movement
PostPosted: Sep Fri 14, 2018 5:43 pm 
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What are you intending to do once you reach 50?


I'm sure that new ideas will pop up in my head when that time draws near but generally speaking by the time I'm 50 I'd at least like to " let off the gas pedal" a bit. I'm already pretty burned out of having to commute to work in the god-awful traffic we have here, where its more like torture. I like where we live but its getting more and more crowded, the cost of living is skyrocketing and the people are getting richer and richer. If our house keeps appreciating as it has been, with an expected housing correction thrown in a small voice inside asks why not sell it, take the savings, and move somewhere more rural, have spare living expenses, and maybe just work a bit of freelance or get some lower level type job.

The bottom line is that I don't have an interest in spending the next 20 or so years working in a cubicle. The current cubicle job pays great and so for the time being I'll happily keep saving. But by the time I'm 50 I hope to be doing something different and more on my terms. If that at all makes sense...


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 Post subject: Re: the new F I R E movement
PostPosted: Sep Fri 14, 2018 5:48 pm 
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bobwilson1977 wrote:
Quote:
What are you intending to do once you reach 50?


I'm sure that new ideas will pop up in my head when that time draws near but generally speaking by the time I'm 50 I'd at least like to " let off the gas pedal" a bit. I'm already pretty burned out of having to commute to work in the god-awful traffic we have here, where its more like torture. I like where we live but its getting more and more crowded, the cost of living is skyrocketing and the people are getting richer and richer. If our house keeps appreciating as it has been, with an expected housing correction thrown in a small voice inside asks why not sell it, take the savings, and move somewhere more rural, have spare living expenses, and maybe just work a bit of freelance or get some lower level type job.

The bottom line is that I don't have an interest in spending the next 20 or so years working in a cubicle. The current cubicle job pays great and so for the time being I'll happily keep saving. But by the time I'm 50 I hope to be doing something different and more on my terms. If that at all makes sense...


Hopefully your planned retirement date doesn't correspond with a real estate market correction. But at your age you have some flexibility + or - a couple years to allow things to settle out.
Still, I can see the attraction of cashing in while prices are high and moving to ???

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 Post subject: Re: the new F I R E movement
PostPosted: Sep Fri 14, 2018 5:52 pm 
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I'm not really counting on the value of the house to fuel the decision. Most of the decision will be based on how much can be saved and accumulated via stock and market investments, old fashioned savings, and so on. I actually hope there is a market correction in the local real estate here because as it is now hardly anyone can afford it and that goes for pretty much all of my friends who still rent as well as my brother and even my boss. I worry about it because many have expressed the possibility of relocating out of the area, which then begs the question of why stay if all the folks you know simply move away?


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 Post subject: Re: the new F I R E movement
PostPosted: Sep Fri 14, 2018 7:51 pm 
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The wonderful best-selling book The Millionaire Next Door, and the follow-on The Millionaire Mind are relevant to this discussion. Big spending is not the way to wealth or happiness.

fifties wrote:
cwr56 wrote:
I've never made more than $24,000/year in my life.

Sounds like minimum wage territory.
You need to develop the gumption to go back to school, at night if necessary, and learn a skilled trade that's in demand, and offers decent pay.
Yep. For example, free-lance asbestos and lead consultants in southern California normally earn $300 to $450 a day. Massage guys earn $3,500 per month. There are plentiful opportunities in southern California. Some SCARS members may be hiring (I will send a PM about one I know).

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 Post subject: Re: the new F I R E movement
PostPosted: Sep Fri 14, 2018 10:36 pm 
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bobwilson1977 wrote:
Quote:
What are you intending to do once you reach 50?


I'm sure that new ideas will pop up in my head when that time draws near but generally speaking by the time I'm 50 I'd at least like to " let off the gas pedal" a bit. I'm already pretty burned out of having to commute to work in the god-awful traffic we have here, where its more like torture. I like where we live but its getting more and more crowded, the cost of living is skyrocketing and the people are getting richer and richer. If our house keeps appreciating as it has been, with an expected housing correction thrown in a small voice inside asks why not sell it, take the savings, and move somewhere more rural, have spare living expenses, and maybe just work a bit of freelance or get some lower level type job.

The bottom line is that I don't have an interest in spending the next 20 or so years working in a cubicle. The current cubicle job pays great and so for the time being I'll happily keep saving. But by the time I'm 50 I hope to be doing something different and more on my terms. If that at all makes sense...

Well here's another thought; once you've reached the totally burned out stage, explore the job market in areas that you would like to live in.

If things look feasible, move there and rent for awhile to see if you and the wife really like it. Meanwhile, rent out your existing house, hopefully for enough margin beyond the monthly PITI expense to at least partially offset where you yourself will be renting.

If it should pan out, use a HELOC on your house if needed for the down on a house in the new location. There's no reason to ever sell your asset in the Bay Area. How much do you think it'll be worth in 20 years? And how much would the taxes be on a property of that value?

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 Post subject: Re: the new F I R E movement
PostPosted: Sep Fri 14, 2018 11:55 pm 
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You think I can afford school anymore? I just got laid off and I'm just trying to find work to make ends meet.

And therein lies part of the problem. It is a particularly nasty cycle. Back in my generation, someone with the skills to repair analog meters could just as easily start their own company doing just that, and more. I know this, because I did it. My brand of self employment was TV service. I don't recall anymore how much I charged, but it seems that complex repairs on a color TV would have a labor tag around $125 plus parts and tubes at 100% markup. No one complained because you gotta have that TV. I put in a minimum bench charge towards the end because I was getting used for a "second opinion" or a "free consultation" too often.

Today?? Almost impossible to start your own service business. That's due to a few factors, not the least of which is that there's nothing worth fixing anymore. Just throw it away and buy new. Recently someone gave me a 50" flat screen, only 2 years old. Replaced under warranty because the manufacturer didn't want to be bothered taking it back. I put caps in the power supply and it's still working 18 hrs/day in a restaurant. But if I had to charge for that repair it would have probably been close to the cost of the new set.

Further, people with skills to fix things are either nonexistent, or not employable because even things that can be fixed, require a factory service facility to do so. And that's assuming you can even get parts. All too many parts now are custom, or replaceable only with elaborate jigs or tools. Or you need to program something and programming information is not available.

I fixed the "brain" of my energy efficient electric hot water tank after buying a new board for $125. It took me about an hour, probably 2 if you count ordering parts. But if I had not had YEARS of experience, I'd have had no idea where even to begin. No documentation available. About as simple a "brain" as you can get ... a few relays, some temp sensors with adjustable feedback, and some LED driver logic. And some stuff to monitor if an element went open.

So cwr I feel for you, hope you find your way through this. The viscious cycle I refer to above is you need more schooling to get the higher paying job, but you can't afford the price of the schools, so you need a job so you can pay for the schools to get a job. (see the thread on time machines in the clubhouse forum lol)

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 Post subject: Re: the new F I R E movement
PostPosted: Sep Sat 15, 2018 2:07 am 
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I would highly recommend looking into community colleges. I spent my first few years in community college and then transferred to a 4-year college. That meant that I really only had to pay for two years of college because usually the first two years of any college is remedial anyway and back then Community College was only a few thousand dollars a year. I believe it's still pretty cheap compared to most universities.


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 Post subject: Re: the new F I R E movement
PostPosted: Sep Sat 15, 2018 3:34 pm 
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Work two jobs to build-up some money. One of the mistakes I made when I had my first job as a computer consultant at Washington University in St. Louis (1982, pay $14,400 which is $37,600 in today's money) was giving them far too many hours. I even bought a modem and terminal so I could work from home. Big companies never ever appreciate such efforts. I would have been far better off getting another job.

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 Post subject: Re: the new F I R E movement
PostPosted: Sep Sat 15, 2018 7:51 pm 
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FStephenMasek wrote:
Work two jobs to build-up some money. One of the mistakes I made when I had my first job as a computer consultant at Washington University in St. Louis (1982, pay $14,400 which is $37,600 in today's money) was giving them far too many hours. I even bought a modem and terminal so I could work from home. Big companies never ever appreciate such efforts. I would have been far better off getting another job.

Yes Stephen, but this is how we learn life's in's and outs, by trial and error.

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 Post subject: Re: the new F I R E movement
PostPosted: Sep Mon 17, 2018 4:22 pm 
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as a vocational instructor at one of the biggest public colleges in the country i have to say i am 100% behind Mike Rowe.

the construction industry is currently in DIRE need of certified workers. coming in as a grunt and working your way up, in a matter of a few years, you can make more than a masters degree holder and be without the student debt. this trend is going on in many vocational trades. why? we took shop class out of public school so now little johnny cant fix a peanut butter sandwich.

we have a whole generation upset because they were brainwashed into thinking spending huge sums for a degree guarantees them a job. nobody told them to seek degrees in marketable skills.


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 Post subject: Re: the new F I R E movement
PostPosted: Sep Mon 17, 2018 4:28 pm 
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^^^
This.

Add to that, it seems today, little Johnny/ Jane also don't like to get dirty and think they need a job in an air conditioned cube.

By no means a universal truth, but more prevalent than a generation ago.

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 Post subject: Re: the new F I R E movement
PostPosted: Sep Mon 17, 2018 5:20 pm 
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ke4mcl wrote:
as a vocational instructor at one of the biggest public colleges in the country...... The construction industry is currently in DIRE need of certified workers.
Thus my mention of asbestos and lead consulting. A free-lancer getting $300 to $450 per day is $78,000 to $117,000 per year. I have been doing that and other environmental and building condition consulting since 1990, so my corporation charges $1,500 per day for my time or $300 per hour for expert witness work (and we still underprice big companies with high overhead and junior staff sent to try to do such projects). Most work days I wear jeans, and when performing asbestos surveys/inspections, a tool belt, yet I make far more than I did as a software salesman wearing Armani suits every day.

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 Post subject: Re: the new F I R E movement
PostPosted: Sep Mon 17, 2018 5:42 pm 
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Only problem is that when it comes to construction related jobs those tend to dry up instantly as soon as the housing market sours, which it will do at some point as it always does. It also seems to me that an awful lot of folks working in those trades are absolutely terrible with money: They'll have the huge lifted $65,000 truck, a whole litter of toys ( ATVs, Jet Skis, Motorcycles, toy hauler ) and then on top of it all, more times than not a stay at home wife to boot.


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 Post subject: Re: the new F I R E movement
PostPosted: Sep Mon 17, 2018 8:47 pm 
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I can't imagine someone being able to save 50% of their income. When I was attending college. it was recommended that we should subscribe to Fortune magazine and I remember reading an article where they said you should save $2.5M for your retirement. I let the subscription expire as I wasn't in Fortune's target market segment!


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 Post subject: Re: the new F I R E movement
PostPosted: Sep Mon 17, 2018 8:55 pm 
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3Transistors wrote:
I can't imagine someone being able to save 50% of their income.

Oh it's certainly possible (or WAS). Shortly after we got married, we would live on her income, which was smaller, and save mine. The goal was to accumulate enough for a down payment on a house, which was met W/O too much difficulty. Now this can work for two income families, but if one is on their own, they would have to be making some pretty good coin in order to do it alone.

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