I have asked this once before on here and some kind people told me to go to http://nawcc.org/ And I did. and they are very helpfull But no one is still able to help me. I have been going around and around with this clock for about two years now. I am about ready to pull my hair out on this LOL. I will post the link to the thread that is on that site with the people that were trying to help on there. Mabey someone here can get a idea on how to wire this thing up????
Thanks!!
http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=63935

I note that one of the NAWCC responses suggests contacting Lathem. Have you tried that? Their service department manager may be able to put you in contact with an installer of the period, or somebody who repairs master units.

Another thought: it might be worthwhile contacting Jeffrey R. Wood, the owner of the clock history museum website:

http://clockhistory.com/setclocks/index.html

He may be able to put you in contact with guys who are familiar with connecting Standard Electric slaves to Lathem masters.

Thank you. I will look into that.

Thanks again!!

Hi,

I’m kind of shooting in the dark here, as I cannot see your pictures on the other site because it says they are restricted or something.

Is your Lathem an impulse master clock? Does it have a big xfrmr inside of it? Take voltage measurements straight off the transformer and you can wire it up yourself. I would say the 24v is run voltage and the 48v is reset voltage. Does your slave clock have 2 electromagnets or one with a copper or aluminum piece that crawls up a gear when the electromagnet is energized? Some Standards also used a weighted minute hand.
Is this an older master clock or something newer like from the 80’s forward?

Keep in mind some had to have a negative voltage to pic the 59th minute and 12 hour reset.
Other things:

What is stamped on your slave motor? 24V? AC or DC? Does it also say 1 rpm... or 60?
Sometimes they will say 60hz which is a giveaway that they are AC. Especially if the motor has been changed in the last 30 years or so.

I saw mention that you have an outboard xfrmr. Is it black and in a cage? Some of those also incorporated a rectifier.

Could it be carrier current? I would not think so being a 3-wire slave, but without any pics I don’t know. Could the 3rd wire be a gnd and the other 2 110vac? Then you would need a 3510 freq. for 59th min/12hr. correction.

-Charlie

Yeah, seems you need to register on that site before you can see attached images. Perhaps TonSpa could post those pictures in this thread.

I note that the Lathem service manual for the LTR2-384 is dated 1986.

CT707 seems to know his clocks, so he may well be on the money.

Meanwhile, here's another guy who is into Standard Electric clocks in a big way and who says in his FAQ: "the Lathem clocks issue a correction impulse ONLY during from xx:58 to xx:59 so if you're using the AR-3 correction method you have to be a little creative with wiring in series clocks. It's compact in size, reasonably priced and easy to install. And honestly, though I thoroughly enjoy working on Lathem systems (they are well built), I've had problems ..."

... so he sounds like a good "goto guy".

http://www.setclocks.com/faq.htm

And finally, here's yet another guy whose been around ("I've worked with IBM/Simplex, Lathem, Standard, Stromberg, and Cincinnati systems plus more") and seems to have one of everything at home:

http://lethleanclocks.com/index.html


So, there's a lot of expertise out there. One way or another you should be able to get it solved.

being that it is not about radios I uploaded them to my photo bucket. If you guys want any more just give a yell. I am just about to junk it all LOL (don't worry I will not)

http://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g305/ ... r%20Clock/

Oh gtc I been to both of the sites u listed. THey have tired to help but been unable to do so. They are great thinking there!

CT707 THe master is not a older one at all. it has a digital read out on its display.

I just made a video of it also. if you can watch youtube you can see this one
http://youtu.be/KkKb9hHOR7I

I'm surprised that those guys, with all of their hands-on experience, couldn't assist.

I can watch YouTube but my sound card is not working so I watched in silent mode.

That looks like a nice master unit and I would have thought that using a voltmeter on the suggested terminals for mode 17 would verify which ones switch which voltage and polarity at the sync time.

Can you link pictures or video of the back of your AR-3 slave?

Also could you respond to CT707's query: "What is stamped on your slave motor? 24V? AC or DC? Does it also say 1 rpm... or 60?"

The video of the master clock did not have anything good for sound. as for what CT707 said I did not even see that (should put on my glasses more)
On the back of the slave clock it says:
No.1AR3 24V.RM12

I will get some pics of it Sunday

Thanks for the link to the video, I have 35 schools I keep up and that model is in several of them. They still make them as far as I know.

When they first came out I didn’t like them because they are finicky but over the years they have kinda grown on me. A very stable master clock, once you master the programming they work well and are not susceptible to voltage spikes. (Although DST no longer works correctly) Open the door, throw the programming switch and away you go. They will mate to most any model room clock ever made by any manufacturer. Which is a big plus for me as some of the clock systems in the school district here date back as far as the late 40’s.

I have a lot of things going on this weekend but we will get you going I’m sure. Just let me know what kind of slave you want to interface to it. Have all the manuals and such too. Some of them are very tricky, I’ve had them hang on the 58th/59th minute and not advance past that, some of them have not reset correctly, it is somewhat set in it’s ways as to what it likes and what-not. Yes you will pull your hair out sometimes. If your slave clock does not function properly, have you thought of looking for another one?

Let us know more about the clock you want to use and the voltage and if it is AC or DC. I understand it’s a Standard, but perhaps you could describe it further? In the back, is it square or round? The back plate that holds the gears, is it clear lexan or brass or aluminum? What is the back cover? Plastic or Aluminum? Do you see a brass “arm” that will reach down and pull upward on a gear for the reset?

The only problem I have had with these is with the relays. Check for continuity on the winding and also check the points especially if it’s been running 110vac slave clocks in a larger site. You can gently pry up the cover to expose the internals.

Another place for additional info is American Time and Signal. I use them mostly now for the Simplex stuff since it’s skyrocketed in price. Their prices are really good and good people to deal with.

-Charlie

here is a video of the slave clock
http://youtu.be/Aw7d0SjO5Q0


As you can see the back cover is Aluminum. and I don't know how it opens. I don't want to break it.

This slave clock is the only one that I have that is old. and I just thought it would be neat to get it to work. I have a few newer ones

Very nice looking survivor from 1953.

The left terminal is labeled "R" and the right is "M". What, if any, label is on the center terminal?

"C" is on the center terminal

From what I read about the 3 line AR-3, I gather it runs on 24 volt DC pulses. (I gather the 2 line AR-2 uses 24 volt pulses for the minutes and 48 volt pulses for the correction.)

Looking at the 3 terminals in your video, I'm guessing the "M" stands for the minute pulse line, the "R" for the Reset or correction pulse line, and "C" is the common line.

Now, what I don't understand about the Lathem wiring diagram is why there is any mention of 48 volts in relation to the AR-3. Seems to me that there should be only 24 volts involved and all the master has to do is send the 24 volt pulse on either the M or R line depending on where it is within the hourly cycle.

Well if you need any more info just give me a yell here. I would LOVE to get this to work.

I'd like to hear what CT707 has to say about the situation as described so far, and for him to verify (if he can) that your AR-3 is a 24 volts DC only slave.

If I had that AR-3 on my bench I'd be verifying that the pulse solenoids actually do work, by intermittently putting 24 volts DC between M and C (presumably M is positive and C is negative) and seeing if the minute hand advances by one minute each time. Then I'd pulse 24 volts between R and C and see if the minute hand shoots up to the 59 minute mark.

(edit: solenoids, not relays)

Hi,

That’s a great old Standard Time clock! 24v only, the way you get the cover off is to twist and pull it up and off. Sometimes they will be stuck… in that case you can pry it up gently with a screwdriver or 2 until it loosens up. Don’t worry about breaking anything, I’ve got a boneyard and have any parts you might need.

There is no motor in it as it’s called an impulse clock just like GTC wrote. It has a clockwork in it and every minute on the 58th second the master clock gives a 3-second +/- pulse to advance the slave clock. Yes the common is just that, “R” should be reset and “M” advances it by minute. There are 2 electromagnet assemblies inside of it that screw on, very simple clock to repair and adjust. The only thing that goes wrong with those is the front and back (usually the back) that hold the gears wears out over time; you can usually spot that right away by the elongated holes. You can also manually advance the clock by hand by pressing on the flapper that the electromagnet pulls in. Kind of a neat design.

Find 24v derived out of the master clock and touch it to the C & M and you should see the slave clock advance. As I recall after the 30-minute mark (the 6) if you give the other terminal voltage, the minute hand should swing up to the 59th minute for reset, as it is weighted.

Perhaps take a meter and look for a 24v pulse coming out of the Lathem right around the 58th second mark on its display. That will be the terminal you want to run your clock.

Sometimes the works will be gummed up, any good cleaner will loosen it up. Work it manually while you spray the cleaner in and it should work great. WD-40 very sparingly will work for lube.

-Charlie

see that is the strange thing about it. All the terminals in the master clock show nothing....no power at all. But as you can see the master clocks...clock is working...so I don't know if something else is broken in it or what. Someone else told me that when I heard the click from the master that should be the time that there is power in the terminals....hope its not broken...

ok so let me get this right. only on 6:00 (give or take) that there is power on the connections? That would explain a lot.

You will only see a pulse once a minute, and it will only be for 2-3 seconds. At 5:59 the master clock should also put out the reset voltage, depending on the master clock and how it is programmed, that duration will vary. Some master clocks also have hourly reset. Reset can be say, 7 seconds for hourly correction and 11 seconds for 12-hour correction. But look for a quick pulse around the 58th second mark. That will be the one you want to advance the slave each minute.

Might want to also check your relay, and see if all the fuses are good too. I don’t remember off hand what Lathem uses, but some Simplex even used 3amp pico fuses.

Perhaps the Lathem is not programmed correctly to run the impulse clock?
Did you get them both out of the same system?


-Charlie

This photo purportedly shows the AR-3 slave mechanism:





Now, here is the page from the Lathem LTR2-384 manual that supposedly shows the wiring configuration for AR-3 slaves (secondary/slave selection code 17):



I have a number of problems with the above diagram: (a) it shows a 48v DC source for the reset pulse, whereas the AR-3 is supposed to have 24v DC solenoids, (b) the diagram shows 24v DC going into master terminal 1 and 48v DC coming out of terminal 2, yet T1 and T2 are connected to normally open contacts of the minute pulse master relay SK1 -- so that looks like a typo, and (c) similarly it shows 48v DC going into master terminal 3 and 24v DC coming out of terminal 4, yet T3 and T4 are connected to normally open contacts of the reset pulse master relay SK2 -- again apparently a typo.

No wonder you are pulling your hair out!

If I had that Lathem master unit on the bench, I would concentrate on proving that it is issuing the minute hand pulses correctly first, before worrying about the correction pulses.

Let's take this step by step and see if we can sort it out.

(1) Do you have a copy of the Lathem LTR2-384 operator's manual?

(2) Which version of the EPROM is in your master unit: the F-9 version, or the G-9 version. (The manual describes how to determine that.)

(3) Please confirm that you can measure 24v DC from your power supply. If so, let's go to step (4). If not, then please check for a blown fuse in the 24v line from the power supply. If no fuse, or no blown fuse, we may be looking at a dead power supply.

(4) From looking at the numerous wiring diagrams in the Lathem manual for the various supported brands and models of slaves, it seems that master relay SK1 looks after the regular minute pulses, and master relay SK2 handles the correction pulses.

Relay SK1 is manifest as terminals 1 and 2 on the terminal block, which I call T1 and T2.

With the Lathem programmed correctly by you, and 24v DC positive connected by you to T1 then with your voltmeter connected between T2 and the negative DC common of your power supply you should be seeing a 24v pulse every minute .

Can you confirm that is happening, please.