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 Post subject: More on Non-Oxygenated Gas for Small Engines
PostPosted: Jun Mon 17, 2013 4:36 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 5696
Location: Litchfield Minnesota USA
My experience yesterday kind of puts the exclamation point at the end of my statements that non-oxygenated fuel (gas that is NOT gasohol, 10%, 20% alcohol, whatever) should be used, whatever the effort to obtain it, in all small engines. Most esepcially those that are used infrequently.

Yesterday I decided to do a job I'd been procrastinating on since the summer of 2006.
That was the year I blew up the 454 engine in my pickup.
The truck is parked directly out from the garage, about 100 feet away.
I could try pushing it there with a car, but decided the potential for damage to the plastic on whatever car I might use isn't worth the trouble.

I recalled a gasoline engine powered winch I bought cheap way back in 2000. I think the last time I used it was maybe in 2004, certainly no later than that, but could have been 2003.
This winch is powered by a low-budget Echo chainsaw engine. The last time I tried to use it, it was a PITA, so I just stuck it on a shelf and forgot about it.
Well, this was a job I decided it could do. But would it run? I knew I hadn't bothered to drain the gas out, so it might need some work. I wasn't about to actually work on it, though.
In any case, I dragged it off the shelf, opened the gas cap and sniffed the fuel. Amazingly, it smelled almost fresh!
I thought I had a chance, so I took it outside, pumped the primer bulb about four times (three times to prime the bulb itself) closed the choke, cracked the throttle part way and pulled the rope. Pulled it again, and one more time. On the fourth pull, it fired up as though it had run yesterday. It runs just fine on that 2004 gas.

This explains why I so strongly recommend doing research to find out if and where you can get gas without the alcohol additives. It's possible some states don't have it at all, but I suspect most states would have some sort of fuel that is small engine friendly. If worst were to come to worst, aviation fuel would work. It's expensive, but it beats old gasohol.

Yes, in a perfect world we'd all drain the tank and/or add fuel stabilizer to the gas. But in the real world, it doesn't always seem to work out this way.

I have never, ever, used sta-bil in my snowblowers. Yet, after the final snowfall of the season, I just let them sit until fall. After the first snow of fall, either one starts up the same as if I ran it yesterday.

I'm just suggesting to the non believers that you consider trying NON-oxygenated fuel if you have small engines that sit unused a lot. That, even if you do use fuel stabilizer. It only adds more storage protection. Around here, it is also a premium grade fuel, 91 or 92 octane by the label on the pump. In the old days, that would have been just about the octane for regular gas, not premium. Your small engines will like it.
Mark D.


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 Post subject: Re: More on Non-Oxygenated Gas for Small Engines
PostPosted: Jun Mon 17, 2013 10:30 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2719
Location: The Right Corner of Texas, 75451
Quote:
Around here, it is also a premium grade fuel, 91 or 92 octane by the label on the pump. In the old days, that would have been just about the octane for regular gas, not premium.

Agreed. I grew up pumping gas before I could drive. Back then regular was 91or 92 octane, ethyl was not less than 95. Gulf oil sold a third grade that everyone avoided because it ran so bad that was 89 octane. I don't remember one as low as 87. Add to that, the methodology for calculating octane was different. The current R/M average methodology artificially inflates the octane rating above the old standard. Old engines were not designed for the current "gasoline" being sold today. Never mind the erosion of the valve seats and corrosion caused by having a hygroscopic liquid added to your fuel.

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 Post subject: Re: More on Non-Oxygenated Gas for Small Engines
PostPosted: Jun Tue 18, 2013 12:36 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 681
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Looking at the Pure-gas.org site, it appears the only outlets anywhere around me are marinas, mucho $$$, off road/farm outlets, probably not available or illegal to put in a regular auto tank or gas can for home use.

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 Post subject: Re: More on Non-Oxygenated Gas for Small Engines
PostPosted: Jun Tue 18, 2013 4:27 am 
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Joined: Jun Wed 14, 2006 11:49 pm
Posts: 5393
Location: Leo, IN or Zellwood, FL
How to find stations that sell Non-Ethanol Gas.
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=IN
Click on your state to find them.

John k9uwa

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 Post subject: Re: More on Non-Oxygenated Gas for Small Engines
PostPosted: Jun Tue 18, 2013 1:46 pm 
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Joined: Apr Sat 22, 2006 10:46 pm
Posts: 1159
Location: Waterloo, Iowa
For small engines, Coleman fuel has excellent storage characteristics as it will not seperate or turn to goo, so it's an option at the end of the season if one isn't keen on draining the tank.


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 Post subject: Re: More on Non-Oxygenated Gas for Small Engines
PostPosted: Jun Tue 18, 2013 5:59 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 5696
Location: Litchfield Minnesota USA
Kevin Clark wrote:
Looking at the Pure-gas.org site, it appears the only outlets anywhere around me are marinas, mucho $$$, off road/farm outlets, probably not available or illegal to put in a regular auto tank or gas can for home use.


If you go to an off-road or farm outlet, you most certainly should be able to buy non-oxygenated gas there in a can.

Remember also, regarding another post, that gasohol stuff also rots the diaphragms on diaphragm carburetors that are used on things like chain saw's, Weed Eaters, leaf blowers, etc. Best to use non-oxygenated all the time, not just for storage. Moreover, I don't think I'd want to run any of those on Coleman fuel. That stuff is for stoves and gas lanterns. It works great for that.
Mark D.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jun Wed 19, 2013 12:55 am 
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Location: Shelby Township, MI 48316
I just purchased a Mercury outboard motor. The dealer's shop where I picked it up told me that they have been seeing new outboards coming in for repairs with rotted fuel systems because the owners didn't put in high-quality stabilizer. This is on outboards that are just 6 months old! They said that using stabilizer that's not specifically for ethanol gas will still get you rotted parts.

Maybe he was just trying to sell me the Mercury brand stabilizer, or maybe he was telling it like it is. I don't want to gamble. Especially since I don't recall seeing non-ethanol gas for sale anywhere around here.

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 Post subject: Re: More on Non-Oxygenated Gas for Small Engines
PostPosted: Jun Wed 19, 2013 1:30 am 
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Joined: Jan Wed 19, 2011 5:28 pm
Posts: 997
Location: mid-Michigan
k9uwa wrote:
How to find stations that sell Non-Ethanol Gas.
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=IN
Click on your state to find them.

John k9uwa

This is a useful website. Thanks for posting the link. The Lansing area seems devoid of nearby locations. The three nearest me are 40 miles, 43 miles, and 51 miles distant. $5.99/gallon!
-DS


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 Post subject: Re: More on Non-Oxygenated Gas for Small Engines
PostPosted: Jun Wed 19, 2013 2:11 am 
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Joined: Apr Sat 22, 2006 10:46 pm
Posts: 1159
Location: Waterloo, Iowa
I can understand the skepticism, sort of, but I can tell you it works just fine in lawn equipment, although it will pinch your wallet.

Certainly, a lot cheaper than carb repairs and such however. Coleman fuel aka Naptha or white gas, is simply a first distillate of gasoline, low octane, with no additives. The beauty of it is that it does not sour or gum or go stale. For this reason, it is an outstanding alternative to stabilzing regular gasoline in things like generators or other critical applications. I read somewhere years ago that Naptha is used in "Jaws of Life" equipment to make sure it will start first time, every time. I couldn't detect any difference in power or performance in a lawnmower.


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 Post subject: Re: More on Non-Oxygenated Gas for Small Engines
PostPosted: Jun Wed 19, 2013 4:21 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1388
Location: Dunnellon FL USA
I worked in a Sears Service Center for some years, and one of the items we carried was non-diluted gasoline in a quart can. Was available in 40/1, 50/1 and straight gas, already treated with stabiliser. At $6 a quart it was pricey, but a quart would run my 4stroke weed wacker/minitiller/blower/edger/brush cutter for a whole summer. Undiluted gasoline is also available at several gas stations hereabouts..Sunoco and no-name, all advertising "No Ethanol" in capital letters. The Sunoco is available only as 91 octane, but the no-name folk have all grades for around $0.15/gallon more. Undiluted gas is also availabile at any marina, as even the low information folk don't want to damage their bass boat engines. The marina operators are loathe to gas up a car, as it could cost them much from the environment folk.

Here in Florida the state regularly tests the gas being offered at all pumps, and has found the ethanol dilutant content ranging from 0% to 24%, while the pumps are labelled "10%". Since I keep close track of my bike's performance, I know when I get low ethanol as the mileage goes up from 35 or so to 42mpg. Conversely, I know when I get the 24% stuff, as I'm unable to reach 30mpg.

Life is good..and the ten most feared words in the english language are "I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help you."
Ride safe..
John L


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