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 Post subject: Re: Unexpected Dialect Crossovers e.g SF to Appalachian
PostPosted: Apr Sat 15, 2017 6:20 am 
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Location: Gold Country, (Stanislaus National Forest) California 95235
And it's not just in America. The little bit of Farsi I speak from my babysitter back in Michigan is a Northeast Tehran (affluent businessmen) accent that is featured on TV radio and in the movies all the way out through Southwestern Pakistan, East Central Iraq, Western India (Urdu territory) Southeast Turkey Afghanistan and all over the rest of the Persian Piedmont. I can't understand e.g Afghanis or Persian Turks or etc - but they can all understand me.

Same with my smattering of Cairo-influenced Arabic I learned from 14 years in L.A. I can't understand e.g. Moroccans or Libyans or Lebanese or West Africans etc etc etc - but they can all understand me because I ``talk like a TV''.

My Spanish teacher in college was from Buenos Aires where they have not only aheavy italian and Continental Portuguese influence - they also have a very sing-songy almost Indian Sub-Continent quality to their speech - to the degree that - once again - I have trouble understanding e.g. Mexican-Americans or Caribbean-Americans - nevermind Italian or Portugese - but the ITALIANS AND BRAZILIANS in my building in L.A. had a better time understand ME than the e.g. Argentinians and Ecuadoreans and Colombians etc.

So THAT surprised me since if I'm supposed to have this European-Italian and European-Portugese accent on my South American influenced Spanish learned in Philadelphia - how are BRAZILIAN Portuguese people able to understand me better than the Argentinians?

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Last edited by ndiamone on Apr Sat 15, 2017 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Unexpected Dialect Crossovers e.g SF to Appalachian
PostPosted: Apr Tue 18, 2017 3:52 am 
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Never heard most of the dialect mentioned in this thread. And I live in W. Washington. We have people from all over the country, and all over the world here, but the dialect must have gotten tossed before they made it here....

Dialect is indeed interesting. One extreme example of dialect I heard was when I was on the bus a long time ago, crossing the US from WA to NC. In West Virginia the bus took on several passengers, in Charleston. Two of them were older women.

They were talking to each other, and I could not understand a single word they were saying.

My buddy was originally from North Carolina. I turned to him and asked him "do you understand these people?"

He looked at me and shrugged his shoulders. It must have been some very rare mountain dialect, with a nasal twang so pronounced, with word endings nasalised or cut off, that it sounded nothing at all like American English.


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 Post subject: Re: Unexpected Dialect Crossovers e.g SF to Appalachian
PostPosted: Dec Tue 05, 2017 4:49 pm 
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Location: Gold Country, (Stanislaus National Forest) California 95235
Bumping an old thread because of a newly rediscovered Yinzerism:

My great aunt sent me some old slides, home-recorded records and reel to reels made by my great grandfather and his family back in the 50s to transfer and make DVDs out of it in order to pass around to all the grandkids and other people who remember.

She wanted me to put a transcript of the original Pittsburghese from the 20s and 30s contained in those old recordings (spoken by my 2x great grandparents and other elderly relatives before they died - the newest ones being made over 10 years before I was born) and then translate it to Modern Standard English so the kids could understand what everybody was talking about without having to have anybody else around to explain.

``Pick you up a poke from oav-air n tote deez dopes home t'y' keehan.''

(Pick up a bag from over there and carry these sodas home to your family,)

I hadn't heard that one in 50 years. He actually lived in the hills East of Clarksburg WV - but for dialect purposes, it's still very much in the World of Yinz which extends half way to Columbus, touches the Eastern suburbs of Cleveland and even goes out to Central Maryland and portions of North-Central Virginia before the similar but distinct Piedmont accent takes over.

Another one I haven't heard since I was little:
``He got too many haints in his press''

Haints = ghosts/spirits/skeletons
Press = clothes press = closet.
my 2X great grandmother I never met talking the early 50s on the recording about an actor in a picture show in the 30s.

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LN=kind. WR=abrasive. Engineers=same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Unexpected Dialect Crossovers e.g SF to Appalachian
PostPosted: Dec Tue 05, 2017 9:23 pm 
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Greetings to the Forum:

KnobDial's comments reminded me of a televised interview with the actress Sandy Duncan that I once heard. She was describing how she grew up in Texas and had to hire a dialog coach to help her lose the accent so that she could get parts in Hollywood. She then told the story of how she once tried out for the part of a Southern gal in a movie. She said that what she did was simply revert to her authentic Texas southern drawl. She was rejected for the part.... the casting director said her accent was too phony, i.e contrived.

It would appear that KnobDial's point is well taken.

Regards,

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 Post subject: Re: Unexpected Dialect Crossovers e.g SF to Appalachian
PostPosted: Dec Tue 05, 2017 11:04 pm 
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I've never heard of "hap" or "city chicken" before...

I have heard southerners use "poke" (bag)
and "carry" (take/bring) as in " I had to carry my mother to the hospital today"

... to some southerners.. ALL soda is "coke" ... "What kind of "coke" do you want, rootbeer?"

I have noticed that some Canadians have a similar accent to Maryland/West Virginia / Philadelphia when they say "howuse" (house) or "phowne" (phone)
Canadians also pronounce project as "pro-ject" vs prahject.

around the mid-west some say "I'm going to the store, do you want to come with?"
Why do they leave off the last word "me" ?

In Oklahoma they reverse "ever" (every) and "every" (ever)

in Western Maryland I used to hear "tar" (tower) or (tire)
and "far" (fire)

In some parts of the NY area it's "earl" (oil) or "axs" (ask)

I have heard a lot of people from various areas say "fustrated" instead of (FRustrated)
or "excape" (escape) or "expresso" (espresso)

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 Post subject: Re: Unexpected Dialect Crossovers e.g SF to Appalachian
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 3:59 am 
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Some of the above is pure Texan.....

Stop at the gas station and they check Walter and Earl, and maybe put some air in the Tars.
And, it really reassuring when they great you with a friendly "Heidi Yawl!!"

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 Post subject: Re: Unexpected Dialect Crossovers e.g SF to Appalachian
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 4:40 am 
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Pbpix wrote:
"axs" "excape" or "expresso"
Most of that is simply African American Vernacular English which is everywhere.
pixellany wrote:
Some of the above is pure Texan.....
"Bet chick yit har zell shownk ray shirk har. (Better check your tires or else you're going to crash your car).
forumuser wrote:
"The radio needs restored" seemed to be a midwestern thing at first. But I'm wondering where they get this from.
Milwaukee stole it from Detroit which stole it from - you guessed it - Pittsburgh.

Once the first big industrial push came in the 20s and 30s and cheaper Southern labor was coming North - the Pittsburghers were starting to lose jobs - so being unable or unwilling to do work that was more labor intensive than they had by moving South - they moved West - inflecting what would later become the rest of the Rust Belt including Chicago, Milwaukee - strangely bypassing Minneapolis - but infecting Duluth like you wouldn't believe.

Milwaukee's ``bubbler'' and ``frozen custard'' and a few others also got infected by New England coming by way of Sault Ste Marie Canada and dropping down through Green Bay - which sounds NOTHING like Duluth or Chicago.
Pbpix wrote:
Some Canadians have a similar accent to Maryland/West Virginia/ Philadelphia when they say "howuse" (house) or "phowne" (phone).
Like "house'' should sort of rhyme with "oats" or maybe "moose" etc. That also came originally from the Maritimes and New England and took the northern route to infect the North Woods of Michigan, Wisconsin and especially Minnesota.

Like I said at the beginning of this thread I lived in Northern Maine til I was four - and listening to some of the old recordings my grandmother saved that my niece sent me to transfer - people talk about getting a cat because they have a "hoose moose" (house mouse) - which you also get a thousand miles away in the aforementioned North Woods - where it completely disappears by the time you get to Milwaukee and Madison - both of which strangely have a speech pattern closer to Michigan than Chicago or Minnesota.
Pbpix wrote:
around the mid-west some say "I'm going to the store, do you want to come with?"Why do they leave off the last word "me" ?
That's one that's a little harder to pin down. While still part of the same Scots-Irish that infected most of the rest of the Appalachian speech - other resources say it came from farther West - farm country South of Columbus, Indianapolis, Peoria etc.

Like the "Ever-Every" reversal in Tulsa probably started off in the factories of Kansas City - because certain Rust-Belt-isms lodged there in the Dust Bowl years - and other ones lodged in St. Louis - probably taking the aforementioned Southern route through Indianapolis and Peoria - which would also explain the "Leave-Let" reversal of Indianapolis and Peoria (Leave go o' that. Leave the dog out. Are you gonna leave me go to the store?) etc. that lodged in the Quad Cities of Iowa.

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LN=kind. WR=abrasive. Engineers=same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Unexpected Dialect Crossovers e.g SF to Appalachian
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 10:14 pm 
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Being a native-born Northerner, I found the dialect and speech patterns I encountered when I first moved to Texas in the late Seventies to be absolutely fascinating. But the most curious of all was the so-called verb "might could." As in "I might could take a little sugar in this coffee." I first heard it from a school teacher, of all people.

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Unexpected Dialect Crossovers e.g SF to Appalachian
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 10:31 pm 
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Reminded of something Southerners say:

"I surely don't."


If you ask the stock clerk in the store if he has something in stock. He replies, "No, sir. I surely don't".

It's kind of a mix of positive and negative. He want's to be polite and not just let you down by saying " No. I don't." ... so he adds a little kinder/positive element (surely) to maybe try to let you down gently and so, instead he says, "No sir. I'm sorry, but I surely don't."

Now maybe I'm wrong and they just want you know they absolutely (surely) do not have it so you won't ask them to go check again... lol... I don't know.

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 Post subject: Re: Unexpected Dialect Crossovers e.g SF to Appalachian
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 1:01 am 
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Location: Gold Country, (Stanislaus National Forest) California 95235
allthumbs wrote:
"I might could take a little sugar in this coffee."
That's actually a crossover from Middle Eastern languages all of which have a version of ``t'raaf'' in their culture.

Urdu, Farsi, Dari, Hindi Punjabi, Turkish, Arabic and Kurdish all have a cutural element where they act like they want very little or nothing of whatever it is that is being offered - but after several rounds of this, the recipient will back down and allow for ``just a little bit'' of whatever is is - expecting their plate or cup to be filled nearly to overflowing.

Since Southerners are very copious consumers on the very same things (oil butter, batter, salt sugar, pepper) as all the above cultures - the abbreviated e.g. Texas version of ``t'raaf' is not surprising in the least since the economy has been oil based since forever and they have the second highest concentrations of these people in their area behind only California.

This same ``t'raaf'' is also why it takes three hours to eat a meal anywhere and another three hours to say goodnight at the end of a dinner visit and why guests and hosts alike think it's perfectly alright not to get home (or hosts to be done cleaning up) until after azaan (Muslim prayer) sirens blast out in the pre-dawn chill.

When my cousins from other parts of the Rust Belt and I spent the summer in Houston and ran across this apparently extremely languid lifestyle (by my cousins' Chicago Cleveland and Pittsburgh standards) it reminded me of traveling out from my hometown of Detroit and spending the summer in Western Michigan - which is the third highest concentration of these cultures behind Texas and California.

All my cousins had all kinds of problems adjusting - I just dropped into a Grand Rapids or Traverse City state of mind and fit right in.

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LN=kind. WR=abrasive. Engineers=same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Unexpected Dialect Crossovers e.g SF to Appalachian
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 3:40 am 
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Talk about odd cultural aspects in speech.. how about behavor?:
Have you ever explored the "crazy" cultural behavior of the Pacific North West Indians called a potlatch?

Two normally enemy tribes once a year have a party and they invite their enemy to dinner.
They make it very lavish buy using up all their stored foods and goods to show the enemy how generous they can be.
The enemy however pretends that it is not enough. They pretend it is too cold. So in a generous response the host obliges them by increasing the fire even if he has to burn up his furnishings.
No matter how good the food the enemy complains how poorly it tastes.

The following year the tables turn and the host then becomes the guest of the enemy and then they get to pretend nothing is good enough and then of course... their host then pretends that they will give them everything and it is no bother to them.
It's crazy.
Potlatch.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potlatch

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 Post subject: Re: Unexpected Dialect Crossovers e.g SF to Appalachian
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 2:08 pm 
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Indiana is a weird state as well. Certain areas of Indiana, you would think you just stepped into the Deep South.


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 Post subject: Re: Unexpected Dialect Crossovers e.g SF to Appalachian
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 2:51 pm 
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Y'all, take Bert Vaux's dialect quiz.....

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... z-map.html

:mrgreen:

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