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 Post subject: Website browsers
PostPosted: Dec Fri 01, 2017 4:41 pm 
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Open to suggestions.

My website has been hacked, over and over again. I now have Sitelock, which has been blocking the bots (and it's stopping plenty of them!) but I'm having a slight problem.

Whenever I upload changes to the site, I go back in and take a look -- and I still have the old pages! Yes, I know sometimes the browser caches the old page, but I can't seem to get past some of it. For example, I have news -- the old page is dated November 24, the new page says November 30. Internet Explorer keeps showing the 24th. Firefox shows the 24th. Google Chrome shows the 30th. Tried it on my cell phone, it shows the 24th.

I made a lot of changes to a page with speakers. All four keep showing the old page. I talked to Sitelock, and they see the new page. They did a cache clear, but I still get the old material.

Ideas?

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Gary Tayman, Sarasota, Florida


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 Post subject: Re: Website browsers
PostPosted: Dec Fri 01, 2017 4:59 pm 
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Location: West Point, PA
Hold down the <Shift> key while reloading the web page. This forces the browser to ignore anything cached and will display the "new" page.

...or just clear your cache before viewing the page.


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 Post subject: Re: Website browsers
PostPosted: Dec Fri 01, 2017 5:04 pm 
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....and make sure you have session cookies on. Many websites use a one-time session cookie to show you the latest - the old cookie system sometimes forced the locally saved page upon you.

Attachment:
cook.jpg
cook.jpg [ 22.24 KiB | Viewed 547 times ]

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Brian
"Capacitor Cosmetologist since 1979"
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 Post subject: Re: Website browsers
PostPosted: Dec Fri 01, 2017 5:19 pm 
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Location: West Point, PA
I hope that helped. By the way, when your site is hacked, what do they do to it?

My site was hacked once. There was nothing apparently amiss, but when you looked at the HTML there were hundreds of URLs attached to the bottom. There was a "display:none" tag (or something like that) right before all the links, so they weren't visible on the screen.

They also changed my FTP password, which I changed again after logging into the account.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Website browsers
PostPosted: Dec Fri 01, 2017 5:22 pm 
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Findm-Keepm wrote:
....and make sure you have session cookies on.


Findm, he's not using any cookies.

Gary, the "Return to main page" link is broken at the bottom of the history page.


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 Post subject: Re: Website browsers
PostPosted: Dec Fri 01, 2017 6:39 pm 
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Location: The Old Dominion VA 23518
SkyKing wrote:
Findm-Keepm wrote:
....and make sure you have session cookies on.


Findm, he's not using any cookies.

Gary, the "Return to main page" link is broken at the bottom of the history page.


If he has a shopping cart, has Google Analytics, or uses a third-party image or Payment (PayPal) system, he uses cookies.

Static HTML? No, but if he's using OSCommerce as he's suggested, it's SQL based, and every PHP query generates a cookie....

9 yrs in Ecommerce - this I know.... :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Website browsers
PostPosted: Dec Fri 01, 2017 6:44 pm 
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Findm-Keepm wrote:

If he has a shopping cart, has Google Analytics, or uses a third-party image or Payment (PayPal) system, he uses cookies.



Findm-Keepm, It's a static page with a form you can print out for sales.
http://garytayman.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Website browsers
PostPosted: Dec Fri 01, 2017 6:46 pm 
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SkyKing wrote:
Findm-Keepm wrote:

If he has a shopping cart, has Google Analytics, or uses a third-party image or Payment (PayPal) system, he uses cookies.



Findm-Keepm, It's a static page with a form you can print out for sales.
http://garytayman.com/


'nuff said.
Attachment:
cook2.jpg
cook2.jpg [ 13.71 KiB | Viewed 513 times ]

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Brian
"Capacitor Cosmetologist since 1979"
USN Retired 1984-2006 (Avionics/Cal)


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 Post subject: Re: Website browsers
PostPosted: Dec Fri 01, 2017 7:39 pm 
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Findm-Keepm wrote:
'nuff said.



Cool!
But where is this done on his site??
I don't see on his web page where he drops a cookie on our machines.

Attachment:
Cookies.jpg
Cookies.jpg [ 75.71 KiB | Viewed 488 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Website browsers
PostPosted: Dec Fri 01, 2017 9:28 pm 
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It may be server side - some Apache and Linux servers run "where are you from" scripts they then use to tell the hosted site what language to use/display. My first flat file/HTML only site kept storing a cookie that Netscape (yes, that long ago) didn't like - it was a geographic/IP tracker placed there by the Webhost server.

The linked form I found on Gary's site has in the source code (header) a date in March 2004, so probably not the same form you are talking about

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Brian
"Capacitor Cosmetologist since 1979"
USN Retired 1984-2006 (Avionics/Cal)


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 Post subject: Re: Website browsers
PostPosted: Dec Fri 01, 2017 9:58 pm 
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Findm-Keepm wrote:
It may be server side - some Apache and Linux servers run "where are you from" scripts they then use to tell the hosted site what language to use/display. My first flat file/HTML only site kept storing a cookie that Netscape (yes, that long ago) didn't like - it was a geographic/IP tracker placed there by the Webhost server.

The linked form I found on Gary's site has in the source code (header) a date in March 2004, so probably not the same form you are talking about


I think it's the same. It says made by Claris Home Page 3/3/04

Thanks for the info about the server side part. It would make sense for them to track things, especially if you got a report at the end of the week about the hits to your website, etc.

LOL, we just need Gary to join the conversation.


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 Post subject: Re: Website browsers
PostPosted: Dec Sat 02, 2017 11:33 am 
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I'm still here, although I've managed to clear and update the pages.

What on earth was written in Claris Home Page? I remember using that a LONG time ago! Later I got Microsoft Front Page, then Dreamweaver, now I'm using SharePoint. When I changed to Front Page, it was such a radical improvement over Claris that I scrapped the old site and started each page from scratch. That's why I'm surprised to see Claris in there somewhere.

Right now I'm busy entering products in the store, trying to get it up and running. Doing the tedious work -- kick panels for 67 Chevelle with air, without air, 68, etc. Lots of copying and pasting.

All the DVC speakers are in place. Kickpanels -- doing them now. I've got the Chevelles done; most of my orders in the past were DVC speakers, and kick panels for Chevelles. So if anyone stumbles onto the website and wants to buy something . . . I'm working on kicks for the other vehicles now.

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Gary Tayman, Sarasota, Florida


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 Post subject: Re: Website browsers
PostPosted: Dec Sat 02, 2017 2:50 pm 
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Gary Tayman wrote:
I'm still here, although I've managed to clear and update the pages.



Right now I'm busy entering products in the store, trying to get it up and running. Doing the tedious work -- kick panels for 67 Chevelle with air, without air, 68, etc. Lots of copying and pasting.


(Emphasis added by me...)

Duplicate item, change title, change description, change price, change shipping weight, change inventory, change image file names, change discount amounts, verify category/subcategory, save, check on live site, repeat...... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Website browsers
PostPosted: Dec Sat 02, 2017 3:13 pm 
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SkyKing wrote:
Hold down the <Shift> key while reloading the web page. This forces the browser to ignore anything cached and will display the "new" page.

...or just clear your cache before viewing the page.


This doesn't work, at least not with Internet Explorer or Chrome.

Apparently Sitelock has something to do with caching. I called them; the rep said she would reset the pages, and later it updated. She made a comment about some "extra cost" feature that would let me reload anytime I wanted, but as we were talking a customer called on the other line and I had to end the call.

I guess within a few days it will reset itself anyway. But currently I'm trying to make changes, and it's frustrating to check my work online only to find it refuses to update. IE, Chrome, Firefox, and Safari on my cell phone all show the same old page. I suppose if I lug out my laptop I'll get the same thing on that.

Here's what happened: Many moons ago I decided to set up a website, originally to point customers to the site itself to answer questions, rather than repeat the same stuff over and over on the phone. This was almost 20 years ago. And yes, I found Claris Home Page at an Office Depot store, and learned how to set up a website using it. While a wonderful tool at the time, it quickly became outdated and would not even load properly with newer browsers. So I rewrote everything with Microsoft -- and others to follow over the years.

Shortly after getting the site up and running, Sams Club announced that they were offering free website space for Business Plus Members. With nothing to lose I tried it out. This was something that you build online -- most of it was crap but the online shopping was really cool! Even that had its problems, hard to navigate and such, but the GOOD part was the fact that, if I did not choose Paypal or some new merchant account, the program would simply send me an e-mail with the customer's credit card (secure of course). I knew that wouldn't last, but for me it worked perfectly and everybody was happy. I fixed navigation by posting the product descriptions myself, then linking them to the correct page if a customer clicked on any product. I'm still doing that today.

One day Sams Club changed its mind and dropped the websites. That was when I moved my site from Verizon to Hostmonster (one of the best things I ever did!). I tried several versions of e-commerce software, and NONE of them did what I wanted, except OS-Commerce, which was fantastic in every way except for shipping modules, which is curiously dumb not to have. I worked around it with a Table Rate, which comes close. Also the credit card thing was no more (no surprise there) so I simply enabled Paypal -- most people today are comfortable with it, so it's working fine.

So once again everything was cool -- until the Christmas holidays a couple years ago. I was out of town -- and suddenly I got an e-mail from Hostmonster that there was malware on my site. Nothing I could do. by the time I got home the site was completely destroyed, with literally terabytes of garbage loaded onto it, and Hostmonster has shut it off. It took me literally three days of "delete" to empty the thing out! I then uploaded my site again, they tested it, and I was back in business -- but without the e-commerce.

There was so much work involved that I decided to quit -- if anyone wants a product, call me. That hasn't worked; sales have been almost nonexistent. Since I've had a very slow year with conversions, I've decided to once again set up the e-commerce.

This time around, yikes! OS-Commerce wouldn't load, neither would anything else. Calling Hostmonster didn't help -- they were clueless (for everything else their support has been super!) Long story shorter, it has taken several weeks to get things back in place, but now it's up.

A few months ago my site was hacked again -- caught it much more quickly, and fixed it, but it got hacked again -- and again. This was when I bought Sitelock. They told me to forget about changing passwords and such, the newer bots are getting in right through the front door! So they have set up a firewall, rerouted the way you get into the site, and are monitoring every attempt to break in. They are sending me a report each week -- and typically I'm now getting about 15-20 hacks each report, unsuccessful of course.

So it's another expense, but so far the site has been working great -- except for the fact that the cache doesn't clear for me to check updates.

At some point very soon I want to go through the steps of backing up the e-commerce site, now that I know it can be done. I know there are two steps -- backing up the software, which I believe is simply a matter of copying the "catalog" directory to my hard drive, and backing up the product data, which is under MySQL. With proper backups, I should never again have to deal with this mess.

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Gary Tayman, Sarasota, Florida


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 Post subject: Re: Website browsers
PostPosted: Dec Sat 02, 2017 3:18 pm 
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Findm-Keepm wrote:
Gary Tayman wrote:
I'm still here, although I've managed to clear and update the pages.



Right now I'm busy entering products in the store, trying to get it up and running. Doing the tedious work -- kick panels for 67 Chevelle with air, without air, 68, etc. Lots of copying and pasting.


(Emphasis added by me...)

Duplicate item, change title, change description, change price, change shipping weight, change inventory, change image file names, change discount amounts, verify category/subcategory, save, check on live site, repeat...... :mrgreen:



Actually this is going much FASTER than I expected. As of now, I've got all the DVC speakers, and kick panels for Chevy trucks, Corvettes, Chevelles, and Camaros in place. The others still have dead links, but that is changing quickly. A large part of the problem before has been procuring the photos -- making a big version and a thumbnail version. The thumbnails were a real mess because they were disproportional and I had to go into Photoshop with each one and fix the aspect ratios. This time it's just select and paste. Last time it took months; this time I've made a ton of progress in just a couple days.

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Gary Tayman, Sarasota, Florida


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 Post subject: Re: Website browsers
PostPosted: Dec Sat 02, 2017 6:26 pm 
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Gary Tayman wrote:

What on earth was written in Claris Home Page? I remember using that a LONG time ago! Later I got Microsoft Front Page, then Dreamweaver, now I'm using SharePoint.
Right now I'm busy entering products in the store, trying to get it up and running. Doing the tedious work --


Hi Gary, the order form on the "Contact Us" page was made with Claris in 2004.
Holy cow, you've got a lot of products on your site. I didn't click on the kick panels till you mentioned it in your reply.
I'm STILL using Microsoft Front Page. I had to load an old copy on my Windows 10 laptop after installing MS Office. I know its outdated but for my simple web stuff it is easy for me to use.

I create the web pages, then FTP them to the site. Everything is stored locally on the laptop hard drive, with backups to a USB drive. In the event the site is hacked like your was, I can just FTP the entire site back to the hosting company (1and1.com)

When my site was hacked it was hosted by homepageuniverse. I haven't had any problems with 1and1, which leads me to a thought. You're paying sitelock to protect your website but the "problem" is with Hostmonster. It is Hostmonster who is getting hacked, not you! You shouldn't have to pay for anything. Hostmonster needs to get their act together. I can't believe they told you the "new bots" go right in through the front door. That is ridiculous.

...more later


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 Post subject: Re: Website browsers
PostPosted: Dec Sat 02, 2017 6:57 pm 
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I use FF, Chrome, Chromium which I dont use much.I gave up on IE years ago.FF better get their crap together with their video playback or they will be in the same boat as IE with me.

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 Post subject: Re: Website browsers
PostPosted: Dec Sat 02, 2017 8:05 pm 
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WPPCProductions wrote:
.FF better get their crap together with their video playback or they will be in the same boat as IE with me.


I use FF and don't have any problem with video. What is it doing on your end?


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 Post subject: Re: Website browsers
PostPosted: Dec Sat 02, 2017 8:35 pm 
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Gary Tayman wrote:
So they have set up a firewall, rerouted the way you get into the site, and are monitoring every attempt to break in. They are sending me a report each week -- and typically I'm now getting about 15-20 hacks each report, unsuccessful of course.


I guess you have the problem figured out, sitelock is mirroring your site and it doesn't get updated in real time. I guess that means nobody else can see the updates, either.

So in the end, it isn't a browser trouble after all.

I can't imagine the purpose of hacking a site to fill it up with garbage, unless it was one of your competitors who wanted to bring it down. I made a simple site for the local delicatessen (West Point Deli). Because it is named "West Point" I had so many Russians and Chinese trying to hack the site I put a message for them in the HTML saying it's just a static page in PA and they are wasting their time. (They were trying to get into a database that doesn't exist)

I checked out osCommerce and it looks interesting. Neat to know you can use it for an online store. I couldn't find a price. Is it free?


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 Post subject: Re: Website browsers
PostPosted: Dec Sat 02, 2017 9:30 pm 
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SkyKing wrote:
WPPCProductions wrote:
.FF better get their crap together with their video playback or they will be in the same boat as IE with me.


I use FF and don't have any problem with video. What is it doing on your end?


I got the latest version of FF and it wont play HTML5 Youtube videos.Go to go to Chrome to play them.

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