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 Post subject: time travel into the past
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 1:23 am 
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Here's a simple reason why time travel into the past would be impossible. Mass would not be conserved. Let's say you had a time machine and went back x number of years before you were born say. The atoms in your body would now exist in your body and also be floating around in the air, water, and dirt in the state they were in before you were born, at that time. This is impossible since these atoms would now be in two places at the same time and mass would suddenly increase. This would not be a problem going into the future because they would be taken out of the time you left and replaced at the future time you entered,thus mass would be conserved. However it would pose a serious problem for the time you left because mass for that interval would now not be accounted for. Now I therefore conclude that time travel into the future is also impossible.


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 Post subject: Re: time travel into the past
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 1:54 am 
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I have peer reviewed metzman's theory and I concur.


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 Post subject: Re: time travel into the past
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 1:58 am 
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so matter and anti-matter would meet and .. KaBoom ?

I don't believe it can happen simply because somebody would have come back by now and spilled the beans.

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 Post subject: Re: time travel into the past
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 2:16 am 
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nowadays... the only thing to look forward to is the past... :)

Greg.


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 Post subject: Re: time travel into the past
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 2:43 am 
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Why go back x number of years? Just go back 10 minutes, tap yourself on the shoulder and say, "I typed that ten minutes ago!"
Now things are worse. Your atoms aren't in the dirt, plants you will someday eat, etc. Now there is a duplicate atom for almost every atom in your body.

However, you will be protected by the "Metzman Field", an energy barrier that a future Metzman will come back to tell you how to create.


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 Post subject: Re: time travel into the past
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 3:06 am 
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Why sweat unknowable physics or debating the number of angels that can sit on a pin, as medieval philosophers did ?

It might seem enjoying the elderly jewels of technology that we discuss here on ARF is a modest yet practicable form of time-travel.

After playing with old sets or being immersed in issues of QST and Radio News from the 1920's for a while, well... Even the ads can take you back to gentler times without disturbing any atoms or rearranging any molecules. However, some might be greatly inconvenienced depending on how you handle the pages.

73,
OTH


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 Post subject: Re: time travel into the past
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 3:27 am 
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Time, matter and energy aren't the separate things you perceive them to be.

Even the most brilliant physicist today doesn't know even a drop of an entire ocean of what there is to know of the universe.

I don't think you can say something such as time travel is possible or impossible.

No need to fret. Not something we can really deal with at this stage of our existence :D

-Steve

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 Post subject: Re: time travel into the past
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 3:42 am 
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Steve,

Point well taken. I have the same feelings about what is 'known' about how the human brain works - pretty much nothing!

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: time travel into the past
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 7:19 am 
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metzman wrote:
Here's a simple reason why time travel into the past would be impossible. Mass would not be conserved. Let's say you had a time machine and went back x number of years before you were born say. The atoms in your body would now exist in your body and also be floating around in the air, water, and dirt in the state they were in before you were born, at that time. This is impossible since these atoms would now be in two places at the same time and mass would suddenly increase. This would not be a problem going into the future because they would be taken out of the time you left and replaced at the future time you entered,thus mass would be conserved. However it would pose a serious problem for the time you left because mass for that interval would now not be accounted for. Now I therefore conclude that time travel into the future is also impossible.


Also, the place in space that you are in right now isn't even the place that you were in several seconds ago. Since the universe is constantly expanding, our location is constantly and forever changing, and the Firesign Theater says: "How Can You Be in Two Places at Once When You're Not Anywhere at All". :lol: :lol: :lol:
Anyway, what's a little scary is that the universe keeps expanding. Expanding into what? Presumably space is infinite, it goes on forever. Is there anything else in the space that our universe is expanding into? Our finite minds can't even conceive of this.

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 Post subject: Re: time travel into the past
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 7:52 am 
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I have traveled 58 years into the future, of course it took me 58 years to do it...


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 Post subject: Re: time travel into the past
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 7:56 am 
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Suppose you invented a perfectly operational linear time reversal machine.
You do not dial in a date in history. No. You simply press the button and time instantly starts going in reverse at the same rate as it goes forward.
(No question.. it is guaranteed to to work as described)
Ok?

Now here is my question.
Once you press the button and it starts going back in time linearly... what will happen to you?
Remember the last thing you did was to press the start button and it starts going backward... right? ...
... so what will actually happen next.

Answer:
If it does go backward, then it will go back to a split second earlier before you pressed the start button and you will press it again ad infinitum.
... so I believe you'd be caught in an endless loop, stuck there, frozen in time with your finger on that button. No?

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 Post subject: Re: time travel into the past
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 8:39 am 
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metzman wrote:
Here's a simple reason why time travel into the past would be impossible. Mass would not be conserved. Let's say you had a time machine and went back x number of years before you were born say. The atoms in your body would now exist in your body and also be floating around in the air, water, and dirt in the state they were in before you were born, at that time. This is impossible since these atoms would now be in two places at the same time and mass would suddenly increase. This would not be a problem going into the future because they would be taken out of the time you left and replaced at the future time you entered,thus mass would be conserved. However it would pose a serious problem for the time you left because mass for that interval would now not be accounted for. Now I therefore conclude that time travel into the future is also impossible.
'Time travel' into the future is trivial. All you have to do is pick the appropriate relativistic speed and destination for a round trip and, voilà, your in the future. Actually, we automatically do it all the time. It's just in real time. I.e. tomorrow I'll travel to tomorrow. But, at relativistic speeds, tomorrow I could be 100 years into the future.

Conservation of mass and energy applies to a CLOSED system and I'm not so sure that the kind of manipulation of spacetime required to do it would qualify, so your prohibition isn't necessarily so.


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 Post subject: Re: time travel into the past
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 8:47 am 
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I do that in dreamland.Had interesting dreams that I went back to the 1920's.

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 Post subject: Re: time travel into the past
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 10:18 am 
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The concept of "time" is man-made, unlike the quantities of energy and mass.

You can't go "back" or "forward" into something that doesn't exist. The idea makes for good science fiction stories, but that's about all.

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 Post subject: Re: time travel into the past
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 11:21 am 
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fifties wrote:
The concept of "time" is man-made, unlike the quantities of energy and mass.

You can't go "back" or "forward" into something that doesn't exist. The idea makes for good science fiction stories, but that's about all.
Uh, not quite. Time may be a derived quantity, like mass is a derived quantity, but it is nonetheless 'real' in the same sense that mass is 'real'. That is, after all, why spacetime has "time" in the name.

Time 'marched on' for billions of years before man came along to give it a name. You can't get much more 'real' than that :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: time travel into the past
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 11:47 am 
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All you have to do is look at all the equations where time is one of the parameters.....

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 Post subject: Re: time travel into the past
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 12:13 pm 
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So you are saying I should not buy this?

https://www.oreillyauto.com/flux-capacitor


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 Post subject: Re: time travel into the past
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 3:55 pm 
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But, what about parallel universes and worm holes? Aren't both theoretically possible? It goes back to what was said earlier in the thread, we don't know what we don't know. If the gravity of the sun can bend light (I think Einstein said is can, good enough for me) why can't some cosmic force we don't understand also bend time or place in space?

All way above my head and I am not really competent to discuss beyond asking questions...but we risk dismissing things as absolutes at our own peril, I think.

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 Post subject: Re: time travel into the past
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 4:14 pm 
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Quote:
Uh, not quite. Time may be a derived quantity, like mass is a derived quantity, but it is nonetheless 'real' in the same sense that mass is 'real'. That is, after all, why spacetime has "time" in the name.

Time 'marched on' for billionss of years before man came along to give it a name. You can't get much more 'real' than that


Einstein , philosophers, current day theoretical physicists,and cosmologists don't know what time really is or if it is an illusion. Spacetime itself is an invention of the human mind to mathematically describe aspects of the universe that are not fully understood. For thousands of years people were convinced the earth was flat and could describe that very convincingly with two dimensional maps. So at the end of the day we now know a whole lot more of nothing about the universe. My point being that time travel into the future is not trivial as you put it. If it is, travel a hundred years into the future and look at your own grave, and get back to me.


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 Post subject: Re: time travel into the past
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 5:06 pm 
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These kind of discussions are fun! Remember the Star Trek; Next Generation episode where they found Data's head in a cave or something of the sort?!


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