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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft strikes again
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 3:34 am 
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WPPCProductions wrote:
pixellany wrote:
You guys are forgetting one major option: Linux. Apologies if you've already researched this---even though it has become very mature, it is not for everyone.

One big advantage is you keep your existing hardware....and the OS is free.

Can you edit video and audio with Linux.I could go that way if possible.With what programs.

Here's a paradox for you:
I have used Linux exclusively for a bit over 5 years....but I am not at all current on its state of development....

My impression:
Linux is now 100% in terms of the most common tasks. This includes the following--as a minimum:
E-mail
Web browsing
Office suite-including word processing, spreadsheets, graphics, etc.
Photo processing, including video

All the above using native applications....

In addition (This one snuck up on me), Linux will now run the majority of Windows Applications

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft strikes again
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 3:36 am 
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rsingl wrote:
...that took care of the disk usage problem until the next Windows update.
Turn off automatic updates.

That's the first thing I did with every Wdoze installation, going back to 3.11 (IIRC).
Never had an issue of any kind (Also running a bunch of 3rd-party security stuff.)

- Leigh

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft strikes again
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 3:36 am 
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so, the windows 10 BS is still going on and bastardizing computers ?

I avoided (and will continue to avoid) windows 10 like the plague.

with that decision, i have been criticized, torn up one side and down the other, chewed up and spit out, and even hung out to dry by many for not succumbing to it.

while so many still are debastardizing or have had to debastardize their Windows 10 Pink Nightmare, my good ole Win 7 computers have not blinked one eye.

XP and W7 will always be the best and most flawless MS OS that were ever made, IMHO.

:wink:

steve

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft strikes again
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 5:22 am 
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Win7 runs perfectly for me and I have resisted all efforts to "Upgrade". Best of all, I've made it look like Win95 with "Classic Start Menu". I see there was a poster somewhere that said "Win8 to Win7 downgrades $150" or similar.

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft strikes again
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 6:54 am 
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I have been in the computer industry since 1972... with big old expensive systems.
I was developing personal computer systems since 1978.
I was there when the firs IBM PC came out.. I was there when the first Apple's came out.

I've been around. Believe me.
I was in my own computer reseller business from 1985 to 1999 selling every kind of machine to medium and large offices. I sold and installed systems to publishers from industrial magazines to fine arts. Tire and rubber dealer in Ohio to Carnegie Hall and Lincoln center. Integrating on site and training as well.
Yes, I've been there done it all.

Here at home now in retirement I do still occasionally run into some problems with a setting here and there.
But to be honest... I've never really felt the urge to ever want to walk away from Windows
All the way from Windows 3 right on through to Win10.

I try to pay attention to keeping my systems clean by using the free anti-virus, "MS Essentials " and also running some 3rd party virus testing utilities from time to time... but nothing really overly time consuming.
I do browse through some of the crazy kinds of sites known for grief but I keep my head on and away from phony virus alerts etc.

I'm sure Linux is nice.. and I'm curious to play with it... but not driven to it.

So what I'm trying to say is that I've run EVERY version of Windows and even everything even since c/pm which came way before MS DOS and you name it and what have you. Ran Xp the longest.

Since Win-95 ... everything got better.
Win10 is a breeze too.

I am not sure why there seems to be so much grief for you guys... but I wonder if it's junk on your old systems and maybe limited hardware or such... but I have not had any problems. So it puzzles me.

Even windows ME never gave me problems. I was fortunate to have jumped right over Vista.
I've been running 3 or 4 desk tops here since 1999 and a WinXP Gateway laptop for 10 years and now two Win-7 Dell laptops (32 bit and 64 bit) Both of which I immediately upgraded to Win10 as soon as it became available.
So there has been lots of oddball hardware here too.

Anyway I run the latest ver of Win10 and get every up date all the time.
Never any serious problems.

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Last edited by Pbpix on Dec Thu 07, 2017 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft strikes again
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 7:07 am 
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I'm probably one of the lone survivors that still puts up with Vistas antics.A couple of times I would like too throw the bloody thing into the Connecticut river.

I agree with Pete.As long you keep it clean It should run OK.

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft strikes again
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 12:55 pm 
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Just Google: windows 10 100% disk for a look at just one of the many Windows 10 issues AND this problem has been going on since the initial Win 10 roll out with each new update and iteration spawning a new group of people searching for the issue.

Superfetch can be the cause with some hardware combinations, MS's own defender had several updates because it would cause this when scanning itself for a virus, Window's search indexer is sometimes to blame, etc. It certainly impacts some systems more than others and I can ignore most of Win 10's bad habits on my desktop and it doesn't bother me too much on my Asus Transformer because of its use of a low power/mobile processor although it is a later one that is fully supported for the Creator update. But when recent I5 and I7 based laptops with plenty of RAM and fast storage require going in and disabling multiple default settings in Windows just to run decently that isn't a hardware problem.

I used Win 8.1 for awhile on two older laptops and it worked fine and Win 7, XP, and all before never had an issue. I used NT for quite awhile on a couple of machines during its era and it ran without fault. Win 10 has some significant problems that MS simply cannot or will not address.

The problem isn't so much software as it is the current MS culture, this Forbes article provides a perfect example: https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkell ... 9302e54722

Rodger WQ9E


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft strikes again
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 1:03 pm 
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I know a lot of people who are using Windows 10 without any problems although I have also reinstalled Windows 10 for some people after the 1709 Creators update and everything worked good after that.

To bad Microsoft couldn't have left the feature of allowing end-users to control how updates and which updates were to be installed as in earlier versions of Windows.


@WPPCProductions
I ran Vista from its first release and never had any problems with it and still use it on one of my Flight Simulator X computers although keep it offline since it has reached EOL.

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft strikes again
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 2:31 pm 
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Dutch Rabbit wrote:
so, the windows 10 BS is still going on and bastardizing computers ?

I avoided (and will continue to avoid) windows 10 like the plague.

with that decision, i have been criticized, torn up one side and down the other, chewed up and spit out, and even hung out to dry by many for not succumbing to it.

while so many still are debastardizing or have had to debastardize their Windows 10 Pink Nightmare, my good ole Win 7 computers have not blinked one eye.

XP and W7 will always be the best and most flawless MS OS that were ever made, IMHO.

:wink:

steve

My last significant Windows experience was on XP. It always seemed to work just fine and, when the IT folk started the transistion to whatever the next one was, there were a lot of people asking why the changes. (I escaped it by retiring....;) ) I was already established on Linux at home, so I was not motivated to keep up with the MS Follies.

One thing that always amused me was the argument that the latest update would increase security.....at every step, Linux was more secure than any version of Windows.

Microsoft operates on a profit motive, and that is what drives the updates. Sometimes, they couldn't figure out how to do anything better, so they would just go with different.

One point that has been touched on....if you take a group of people with no experience installing and configuring any kind of OS, they will be up and running on Linux much faster than on any Windows system.

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft strikes again
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 3:44 pm 
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My opinion is a tool should HELP you do what you want to do within reason. Discard any tool which does not do what it is supposed to do. When a tool in itself becomes a PROJECT just get it to work it is time to get a different tool. We are not computer experts although the wife is pretty close. We have HAD IT with MS and Dell. I got so fed up with DAYS spent trying to get either the hardware or the OS to work I got tablets and a Mac. Problems have disappeared. Gates, IBM and pc's can go somewhere but not HERE!

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft strikes again
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 5:48 pm 
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Leigh wrote:
rsingl wrote:
...that took care of the disk usage problem until the next Windows update.
Turn off automatic updates.

That's the first thing I did with every Wdoze installation, going back to 3.11 (IIRC).
Never had an issue of any kind (Also running a bunch of 3rd-party security stuff.)

- Leigh


Won't work for Windows 10 home edition.

All other Windows 10 editions it will work.

One way to stop updates is to type in services.msc in the search bar on the task bar and disable the windows update service.

That will work for maybe a week to several months until Microsoft decides to enable it again and update.



Pbpix wrote:
I am not sure why there seems to be so much grief for you guys... but I wonder if it's junk on your old systems and maybe limited hardware or such... but I have not had any problems. So it puzzles me.


I think it has a lot to do with the many hardware and software configurations out there.

I myself run Windows 10 on a 2009 Dell Inspiron 1521 laptop and other than the earlier update this year screwing with my WI-FI (original card now has no compatible drivers and new card won't work right) I have had no issues whatsoever with 10.

At least on that laptop 10 is faster than 7.



rsingl wrote:
But when recent I5 and I7 based laptops with plenty of RAM and fast storage require going in and disabling multiple default settings in Windows just to run decently that isn't a hardware problem.

Rodger WQ9E


Although it could very well be and most likely is a hardware problem.

On the other hand if all laptops with the same processor power and RAM have the same issues after a Microsoft update then yes it is then a Windows issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft strikes again
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 10:55 pm 
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Like I've said before, M$ can take Win 10 and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. Between the compatibility issues, updates breaking things, the spying/data mining, lack of user control of what's going on on their computer, etc, I just won't have it. I'll keep Win 7 for as long as necessary while migrating to Linux. If I still happen to need Windows for something (like the audio/video software that I use) after I switch to Linux, I'll just keep a spare machine running Windows that's disconnected from the 'net.

Edit: Oddly enough, I also used Vista for years with very few problems. It actually behaved better for me than XP did in it's early days.


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft strikes again
PostPosted: Dec Fri 08, 2017 12:47 am 
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In 25 minutes today I downloaded Linux Mint/Cinnamon and created a bootable flash drive for my HP workstation to try it. Very easy to use with no problems so I installed it on the unused second solid state drive in this machine which was fast and simple. Right now rather than fool with the possible issues of upsetting the security setup on the HP workstation with a true dual boot I just hit F9 at startup and select to have it boot Linux from the second SSD instead of the normal boot into Win 10 from the primary SSD.

This was very easy and simple compared to the many frustrating hours I spent yesterday fooling around with Win10 repair/upgrade. I will continue to primarily use Win10 on the workstation although I see from the documentation it was available with Linux factory installed however I will install Linux on an older desktop and I will move my small Asus "Transformer" tablet over to Linux very quickly.

And Win 10 tried to get the last laugh because I wanted to try Linux on one of the laptops and Win 10 immediately started "fixing" the USB flash stick rendering it unusable but I simply had the program recreate the flash stick. That was right up there with Win 10 blowing itself i[ by trying to do an interim update while the big Creator update was installing.

Rodger WQ9E


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft strikes again
PostPosted: Dec Fri 08, 2017 5:47 am 
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I have a Win10 computer and have few complaints.

I'm not crazy about updated features I'll never use (I don't understand the appeal of the "Creators edition", I know it added some stuff to the computer that I'll probably never use). I'd prefer if they'd just update the security stuff, and leave the bloatware for those who actually want it.

But overall Win10 seems to fix itself whenever there is an issue.

I mostly use my comp for writing, and a bit of web browsing (same 9-10 sites, basically). And that's about it.

For my uses, Win10 hasn't been a hindrance. Sometimes updates will slow the computer. Maybe for 5-10 minutes. But most of the time it doesn't slow it.


Last edited by Renton481 on Dec Sat 09, 2017 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft strikes again
PostPosted: Dec Fri 08, 2017 4:00 pm 
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Final update (I hope) :)

My daughter's Win 10 laptop that started this whole process is running Windows fine for now and I hope that continues.

Yesterday my own Asus I7 laptop did the Creator update and it went OK but I realized that the only thing I use that laptop for is internet, email, and word processing. In the past year I have had to make changes several times to defeat superfetch as each new upgrade re-enables it, keep search/index under control, etc. and I knew that would be a continuing process. So this morning I switched it over to Linux and it went smoothly and I expect not to be dealing with software issues on it. I have an older Dell I5 desktop that will come off of its shelf in the basement, get a Linux install, and go into service at the repair bench area for displaying manual/schematic pdf. Linux is fast enough on the older hardware to make it nicely usable again.

My HP Z820 will continue to run Win 10 with Linux as an alternative boot option from its own dedicated drive. There is some software I use that probably doesn't run under Linux (i.e. Digital Photo Pro for my Canon DSLR, Cosworth Toolbox which reads and analyzes the data from the performance data recorder in my Corvette) so I will keep a Win 10 machine going. The HP has enough horsepower that it is robust against most of the MS garbage with processor utilization hanging around 0% and memory use around 2% so it doesn't have to be fine tuned to work well.

Anyone with an old (but not too old) machine will find Linux incredibly easy to install and use. I use the basic Mint/Cinnamon build which has the clean look that Windows used to feature and anyone used to running Windows will nave no issues. For me it was also a trip down nostalgia lane because I haven't used Thunderbird email since the early 1990s; it is the included email with Linux and works quite well.

Rodger WQ9E


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft strikes again
PostPosted: Dec Fri 08, 2017 5:41 pm 
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I don't have a particular issue using Windows 10, but then again I wouldn't be caught dead without a big Dell desktop computer.


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft strikes again
PostPosted: Dec Fri 08, 2017 10:30 pm 
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rsingl wrote:
In the past year I have had to make changes several times to defeat superfetch as each new upgrade re-enables it, keep search/index under control, etc. and I knew that would be a continuing process.

Rodger WQ9E

Wonder why my two Win10 Dell laptops have never been running "superfetch" ?

I looked at the task manager and it's never there as a running task.
It's not something I ever knowingly turned off either.
So... why is that?

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft strikes again
PostPosted: Dec Fri 08, 2017 10:53 pm 
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Peter,

One thing I have found with Win 10 is when it updates (even to a new version) or patches the existing version it generally turns on things that you turned off previously. But if superfetch were disabled from the initial build, which it should have been if your Dell laptops have solid state drives, then that seems to carry through when it updates. It is possible that in the original build Dell also turned off superfetch because it was known to be a problem in search of a solution even before Win 10. There may be a few user scenarios where the predictive algorithm is beneficial and it actually does save some time by keeping specific data in memory rather than going to the drive but in many cases it is "guessing" incorrectly and wasting both time and memory fetching data not needed/used.

When I ran into the first high disk activity issue with Win 10, superfetch was (and still is) one of the prime suspects. One of the funnier (or sadder for the individual involved) cases was on a Win 10 build on a fairly low power and low memory laptop. It was dumping a lot of stuff into system RAM and because of low resources it was having to use the disk drive as virtual memory resulting in an even worse than usual superfetch slowdown.

Apple has a big advantage in the level of control they exercise over hardware while Windows is used across such a wide range of systems that the more complex it has become the more issues like this arise. If I was only using Win 10 on my workstation I wouldn't have as many complaints, although I still object to having to fight with it over its snooping and overly busy behavior. It also got old having to kill Cortana on my laptop which was running Win 10 64 home, I have the professional version on the workstation so the group policy editor makes it somewhat easier to wrest control back from MS when we disagree as to what is best for the user :)

I really don't hate Microsoft and I wouldn't have been able to retire at 55 without the consulting dollars from a JV they were part of during the dot com boom so I have some positive feelings about them. But I think of Win 10 is the revenge of OS2, if we didn't get you the first time we will get you now :)

Rodger WQ9E


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft strikes again
PostPosted: Dec Fri 08, 2017 11:02 pm 
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rsingl wrote:
But I think of Win 10 is the revenge of OS2, if we didn't get you the first time we will get you now

I don't know if that is meant as a compliment to OS/2 or a derogatory remark.

I did some really marvelous things with OS/2. It is far and away the best RTOS I've ever worked with, and I've worked with most of them.

Interrupt handling, task dispatch and memory management blow the others' socks off.

- Leigh

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft strikes again
PostPosted: Dec Fri 08, 2017 11:23 pm 
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Leigh wrote:
rsingl wrote:
But I think of Win 10 is the revenge of OS2, if we didn't get you the first time we will get you now

I don't know if that is meant as a compliment to OS/2 or a derogatory remark.

I did some really marvelous things with OS/2. It is far and away the best RTOS I've ever worked with, and I've worked with most of them.

Interrupt handling, task dispatch and memory management blow the others' socks off.

- Leigh


Leigh,

The major problem with OS/2 was it was also put on some really lousy hardware (from IBM) that wasn't really sufficient to run it properly; in the right setting it was very good. Windows NT had some of the same environmental issues.

Towards the end of the IBM PS-2 era things got really weird when IBM started the "Team OS/2" thing and I remember running into some of the tech support people at the university proudly wearing their team shirts and using Team OS/2 in their email signature.

Some of the PS-2 "boxes" were pretty horrible and my first major faux pas as a young faculty at the university was when I observed after learning our college had ordered several hundred of them that I hoped somebody was getting a good kickback because there has to be a logical reason for this order. I found out later the person driving the order was in the meeting and she wasn't pleased but it turned out that decision was par for the course. Those machines were dumped after less than 2 years.

Rodger WQ9E


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