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 Post subject: Re: California Mudslides
PostPosted: Jan Wed 17, 2018 9:40 pm 
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In the east bay in Northern California many years ago, I answered an ad for a free 1930s console and some other stuff that the owner was just giving away. The owner's house was at the top of a hill. Amazing view, with houses that even back then were probably close to $1 million.

There were roads, sidewalks and driveways where the concrete was shifting all over the place. You could see areas where these same shifts were beginning to tear some of the houses apart. When I arrived, I asked the owner about this and he told me that the total of all the lawsuits aimed at the developer of this neighborhood were at $1 Billion and climbing. Either a geologist was never consulted or the one that was used was corrupt or incompetent.


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 Post subject: Re: California Mudslides
PostPosted: Jan Wed 17, 2018 11:49 pm 
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The demand for housing on scenic hilly lots is what drives much of the problem with property damage associated with mudslides.
There is enough wealth at stake in land development that it drives/controls the legislative and regulatory processes that should be keeping people from selling lots that are unsuitable for anything but grazing goats.

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 Post subject: Re: California Mudslides
PostPosted: Jan Thu 18, 2018 1:05 am 
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Location: Litchfield Minnesota USA
Primitiveradiogod wrote:
In the east bay in Northern California many years ago, I answered an ad for a free 1930s console and some other stuff that the owner was just giving away. The owner's house was at the top of a hill. Amazing view, with houses that even back then were probably close to $1 million.

There were roads, sidewalks and driveways where the concrete was shifting all over the place. You could see areas where these same shifts were beginning to tear some of the houses apart. When I arrived, I asked the owner about this and he told me that the total of all the lawsuits aimed at the developer of this neighborhood were at $1 Billion and climbing. Either a geologist was never consulted or the one that was used was corrupt or incompetent.



I'd sure like to know how the lawsuits turned out! Are the houses still there, with a lot of patching up and bracing?

Mark D.


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 Post subject: Re: California Mudslides
PostPosted: Jan Thu 18, 2018 7:13 am 
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Location: Santa Cruz mountains
Mark D wrote:
Primitiveradiogod wrote:
In the east bay in Northern California many years ago, I answered an ad for a free 1930s console and some other stuff that the owner was just giving away. The owner's house was at the top of a hill. Amazing view, with houses that even back then were probably close to $1 million.

There were roads, sidewalks and driveways where the concrete was shifting all over the place. You could see areas where these same shifts were beginning to tear some of the houses apart. When I arrived, I asked the owner about this and he told me that the total of all the lawsuits aimed at the developer of this neighborhood were at $1 Billion and climbing. Either a geologist was never consulted or the one that was used was corrupt or incompetent.



I'd sure like to know how the lawsuits turned out! Are the houses still there, with a lot of patching up and bracing?

Mark D.


I haven't been back there, but there is no way that neighborhood could have remained habitable. I don't know the outcome of the legal action but i would have a hard time believing that the developer would have prevailed in court. The effect of the geologic instability was profound. These homes looked to be about 10 years old and i could see signs of metal garage doors being tweaked from the earth moving around and aluminum siding crinkled like tin foil on several houses. The best analogy i can come up with is to imagine a house built on very slow moving lava.

In all likelihood the property owners were probably bought off and paid to move, and the houses were likely torn down to safeguard against liability from squatters trying to homestead in unsafe houses. Perhaps a few of the houses could have been moved to more stable ground elsewhere, but in many cases it appeared substantial damage had already been done.


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 Post subject: Re: California Mudslides
PostPosted: Jan Fri 19, 2018 4:03 am 
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Happening Now in Malibu,Ca.

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 Post subject: Re: California Mudslides
PostPosted: Jan Sat 20, 2018 6:01 pm 
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Location: San Jose, CA USA
Insurance companies are wising up about dangerous locations. Lots of hillsides are zoned off limits for construction (usually for preservation of parkland, etc.). But there are still plenty of places you can build that are high risk. Lately, however, insurance companies are starting to say "no" to insuring houses built in places where fires and mudslides are likely.

Although it took perhaps far too long for this to happen, this is a perfectly reasonably free market solution to the problem.

If you can't get insurance, you can't get a mortgage, and for most people that is fairly decisive.

If a few rich people still want to build, they will be self-insured (i.e., they simply have to pay the full replacement cost themselves when it burns down or slides away).

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 Post subject: Re: California Mudslides
PostPosted: Jan Sat 20, 2018 6:21 pm 
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And when it slides away, they need to pay to have the debris cleaned up out of wherever it lands. Or, that's the way it should be.
Mark D.


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 Post subject: Re: California Mudslides
PostPosted: Jan Sat 20, 2018 9:35 pm 
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The California FAIR plan is the insurer of last resort in California. I'm not sure, however, what their U/W guidelines would be for fire and slide prone areas.

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 Post subject: Re: California Mudslides
PostPosted: Jan Sun 21, 2018 8:08 pm 
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Location: Litchfield Minnesota USA
A lot of people still in their homes in that area work in the greater L.A. area and normally drive down the 101 and back every day for work. Lately, their only way to work has been to use the trains. Amtrak has added cars to all trains and I believe has added special trains.

However, the Highway Dept. has promised that the 101 will be open once again Monday morning. That's tomorrow ad of Sunday, Jan. 21.

Just an FYI in case anyone here has been trying to commute and getting squeezed into over packed railroad cars.

Mark D.


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 Post subject: Re: California Mudslides
PostPosted: Jan Sun 21, 2018 9:20 pm 
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Location: Redding, CA
fifties wrote:
The California FAIR plan is the insurer of last resort in California. I'm not sure, however, what their U/W guidelines would be for fire and slide prone areas.


Slides and volcanic activity are covered under earthquake insurance. Mudflows are covered under flood insurance. The persistent misuse of the term mudslide by the media to describe the source of damage in Montecito causes confusion and aggravation.

Norman

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 Post subject: Re: California Mudslides
PostPosted: Jan Mon 22, 2018 6:34 am 
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Braithwaite wrote:
fifties wrote:
The California FAIR plan is the insurer of last resort in California. I'm not sure, however, what their U/W guidelines would be for fire and slide prone areas.


Slides and volcanic activity are covered under earthquake insurance. Mudflows are covered under flood insurance. The persistent misuse of the term mudslide by the media to describe the source of damage in Montecito causes confusion and aggravation.

Norman

Since we have no volcano's here in Cali, the insurance industry is pretty safe on that score. AFA mud slides vs mud flows, I guess there's a technicality to define between the two. Earthquake rates are a joke. Nobody in their right mind would pay those types of premiums for the coverage offered.

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 Post subject: Re: California Mudslides
PostPosted: Jan Mon 22, 2018 4:16 pm 
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Location: Redding, CA
fifties wrote:
Since we have no volcano's here in Cali, the insurance industry is pretty safe on that score.


Well, except for Mt Shasta, Medicine Lake (caldera), Mt Lassen, a mountain range worth of cinder cones and shield volcanos that look like plain old hills, and perhaps of greatest concern, Mammoth Lakes, a swelling caldera, California has no volcanos :wink:

Last I checked, Medicine Lake and Mt Shasta were considered the second and third most active along the west coast from a geologic standpoint lagging only Mt St. Helens. Combined (only 50 miles apart), the pair may be considered most active. Of greatest immediate concern however is the Mammoth Lakes caldera with its swelling and persistent seismic activity.

Norman

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 Post subject: Re: California Mudslides
PostPosted: Jan Mon 22, 2018 10:01 pm 
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Braithwaite wrote:
fifties wrote:
Since we have no volcano's here in Cali, the insurance industry is pretty safe on that score.


Well, except for Mt Shasta, Medicine Lake (caldera), Mt Lassen, a mountain range worth of cinder cones and shield volcanos that look like plain old hills, and perhaps of greatest concern, Mammoth Lakes, a swelling caldera, California has no volcanos :wink:

Last I checked, Medicine Lake and Mt Shasta were considered the second and third most active along the west coast from a geologic standpoint lagging only Mt St. Helens. Combined (only 50 miles apart), the pair may be considered most active. Of greatest immediate concern however is the Mammoth Lakes caldera with its swelling and persistent seismic activity.

Norman

When's the last time any of them were active?

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 Post subject: Re: California Mudslides
PostPosted: Jan Mon 22, 2018 10:39 pm 
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Location: Redding, CA
Mt. Shasta, Medicine Lake, Mt. Lassen, and Long Valley Caldera (Mammoth Lakes) all erupted within the last 1000-years, are active, and are considered high risk volcanoes. A volcano near the Salton Sea is also considered active and high risk but has not erupted within the last 1000-years. Most other volcanoes in California are also considered active.

Norman

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 Post subject: Re: California Mudslides
PostPosted: Jan Tue 23, 2018 8:54 am 
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Braithwaite wrote:
Mt. Shasta, Medicine Lake, Mt. Lassen, and Long Valley Caldera (Mammoth Lakes) all erupted within the last 1000-years, are active, and are considered high risk volcanoes. A volcano near the Salton Sea is also considered active and high risk but has not erupted within the last 1000-years. Most other volcanoes in California are also considered active.

Norman

The insurance companies are safe... :wink:

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