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 Post subject: Repair of a Badly Damaged (in shipping) Tefifon T574
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 4:21 am 
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Greetings,

Here's the sad story.

I bought an antique German radio, Tefifon T 574 that was in near mint condition. The radio was shipped in an oversized box, padded all around with thick foam ( the kind of foam used for sleeping mattresses). The box was thick corrugate cardboard with large Fragile labels on all sides.

As luck would have it, the box was dropped at least twice during shipping. I can see two smashed corners. Although there was plenty of padding, there are a lot of heavy metal parts inside the cabinet and the inertia of the impacts smashed the radio.

The package was insured. The insurance claims handler asked em if I want to have it repaired. Since I do I need to submit an estimate. They will accept this to be a valid estimate if people on this forum respond to this thread and post estimates. I am going to be doing the repairs myself and I can't take it to a repair shop for an estimate, as there are not such repair shops where I live. The radio can't be shipped to a shop in this condition either.

So, I'm hoping a few competent people here can have a look at the photos and post their best guesses, as to how much it would cost to have this repaired, if I were to bring it to a specialized repair shop.

I am looking for the most realistic estimates, possible.

Here are the photos.

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So, most of the cabinet is smashed. The veneer is peeled off in some places, The particle board cabinet material is fractured in a way that does not fit together at the fracture points. The inner plastic tray is broken and it looks like some of the metal pieces were bent. Luckily no tubes were broken, but some wires are disconnected at solder joints and I'm having a hard time finding a clear schematic.

Thank you all for your help.

I just hope to be able to do a good job restoring this piece of history.


Last edited by Adinol on Feb Sat 24, 2018 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Antique Radio Shipping Damage Repair Estimate
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 5:10 am 
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Joined: Jan Mon 16, 2012 4:15 pm
Posts: 4518
Location: Near Brandon, Iowa
This radio could probably be patched up, but it could never be "restored" in the normal sense of the word.
It doesn't have just worn parts and damaged finish, it has structural and mechanical damage, the potential extent of which really can't be accurately assessed from photographs.

In other words, the unit is "totalled": cost to professionally repair it will almost certainly exceed the insured value.

If it were me, I think that I would accept a settlement that covers my costs up to this point (insured value in this case is probably limited to purchase price plus handling/shipping). Normally, the insurer gives you the money and you give them the shattered remains of the radio. However, I would make agreeing to this settlement conditional on the insurer either giving you the damaged radio or allowing you to purchase it from them for a nominal amount that you feel is fair. They will probably go along with this since the resale value of the damaged radio is basically zero, and settling in this manner expedites closure of the claim (which amounts to reduced money outlay on their part). After the set officially belongs to you, you can attempt restoration as you please, to whatever standard of perfection you desire.

I've done this with a nice high-end Saba radio which the apparently clueless owner shipped to me without installing the chassis holddown bolts... so in transit the heavy chassis turned into a battering ram and smashed the wooden cabinet to splinters. The insurer paid for my sunk costs and gifted me with the remains, which became a useful donor parts source for other Saba repair projects.

Of course, this is a "second best" outcome- the receipt of an undamaged radio being the best one- but that's water over the dam, I suppose.


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 Post subject: Re: Antique Radio Shipping Damage Repair Estimate
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 3:53 pm 
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Joined: Feb Thu 08, 2007 2:32 pm
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Location: 06457
Cabinet being made from particle board and not wood makes it a total loss. As stated above get back what you have into it, $$$$, keep the remains as a parts radio. JMO


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 Post subject: Re: Antique Radio Shipping Damage Repair Estimate
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 4:06 pm 
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Joined: May Sat 06, 2006 4:03 am
Posts: 3077
Location: ZIP 23831 South of Richmond, VA 25 miles down the pike.
Curious, the shipper?

Bill J.


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 Post subject: Re: Antique Radio Shipping Damage Repair Estimate
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 4:22 pm 
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Joined: Nov Mon 06, 2017 7:45 pm
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Location: Sherwood, Oregon
I think the radio is worth only the amount of what parts can be salvaged out of it at this point. The insurance should pay the difference. You can try to fix it, but it will always have diminished value.


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 Post subject: Re: Antique Radio Shipping Damage Repair Estimate
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 6:13 pm 
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There were 3 shippers handling this package.

First Deusche Post, then DHL Express, then USPS.

I believe it would be a shame to scrap this radio because the finish is actually very nice, with natural crackling and true patina. Some radios have the finish peeled off, which is not the case here.

I know I can fix this and make it almost undetectable that it was ever smashed into pieces. I need to fabricate clamping jigs, lined with teflon (so that glue doesn't stick to the jigs). Then use a combination of wicking superglue (+activator), liquid epoxy, thick epoxy, fillers and wood glues (depending on which parts to fix). All the peeled off veneers (which are only cracked along natural wood grains) can be glued back. Some of the particle board can be reinforced on the inside. The plastic that is broken can be glued back with wicking superglue + activator. I've fixed musical instruments that were smashed and you can barely see anything, unless you look closely. I know this is particle board, but I can open up the joints and use epoxy fillers mixed with sawdust and reinforcements. When I'm done with this I will have to point out the imperfections for anyone to notice. I know I can do this because I am only going to be dealing with fractures and all the pieces are present. If there was water/fire damage then it would be a different story, but that is not the case.

My problem is that I am a DIY-er and not a professional with an established hourly rate. It is impossible for me to take this radio anywhere to get an estimate, but the insurance will accept estimates from a specialized forum such as this one.

Basically, for 3 days of work, how much might a competent restorer charge for the time spent (and materials used)? I will probably spend a couple of weeks on it, but that's just because I work slowly and won't be working non stop. I think to get compensated for 3 days of work would be fair, but I have no professional experience and don't know how much a pro would charge for 3 days.

If a few members here post your best guesses I can move forward with the insurance claim. Just your best guesses will do.

Thanks...


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 Post subject: Re: Antique Radio Shipping Damage Repair Estimate
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 6:36 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 26722
Location: Detroit, MI USA
Tefifon stuff is really scarce in the US. The "tape" cartridges alone for that unit (which are actually a linear phonograph recording, using a stylus to reproduce) sell for significant money, some in the hundreds of dollars for one cartridge.

Figure $90 to $100 an hour for specialized labor. That varies by market, but is a realistic number in many parts of the country. Skilled trades and experienced professionals do not come cheap. If you need an exact number, call around to car dealerships in your area and ask what they bill for electrical repairs, which is probably the closest you can come to what an electronics repair shop would charge if any still existed. Some shops were at almost that level nearly 20 years ago on complex electronic repairs. Take an average of the rates you are quoted and there's your number. Skilled woodworkers should be worth every bit as much.

How many hours is impossible to determine, your figure of 3 days may not be long enough, but if that were correct then 24 hours. It's also possible that someone who does this sort of work would look at it and decide it would only take them 10 or 12 hours even though you and I agree we couldn't do it in a week. Add the impossible to get damaged plastic parts on top of that, as well as a materials fee for supplies like glue, metal brackets that will have to be added to keep it together, screws and so on.

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Dennis

Experience is what you gain when the results aren't what you were expecting.


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 Post subject: Re: Antique Radio Shipping Damage Repair Estimate
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 6:59 pm 
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Joined: May Sat 06, 2006 4:03 am
Posts: 3077
Location: ZIP 23831 South of Richmond, VA 25 miles down the pike.
I'm afraid you will be stuck with what you paid for it. I hope not. I could elaborate more but let's see what happens.

Bill J.


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 Post subject: Re: Antique Radio Shipping Damage Repair Estimate
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 7:43 pm 
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Joined: Feb Thu 08, 2007 2:32 pm
Posts: 11796
Location: 06457
Insurance companies don't fool around with written estimates from just anybody thats not in a radio restoration registered business. If you had a vehicle worth $2000,00 and was in a accident, repair estimates $6000,00, YOU WILL GET BOOK VALUE. Bona-fide estimates on the radios street value is all they will pay and not multi hundreds of dollars in repair costs. To throw a number at you probably at least $2500.00 at the rates above. If you cut the rates to half that then $1200.00


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 Post subject: Re: Antique Radio Shipping Damage Repair Estimate
PostPosted: Feb Thu 08, 2018 9:51 pm 
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I have another idea.

I'm thinking there must be a few members on this forum that restore antique radios, professionally. Perhaps one such person would be willing to do me a favor.

I could send some photos to that person to get a repair estimate. It is not a practical option to send out a smashed radio for such repair, but if that person could write up an estimate it would just be as a favor to me. I am not looking for any inflated estimates, just a fair mid range price that would compensate me for the time spend, plus materials, parts and S&H on parts.

The post office sent out someone today to inspect the package and the broken radio. They took pictures and now they say they need a repair estimate. They do not object to me fixing it myself, but they still need an estimate for the insurance claim process.

If anyone would be willing to do this for me, as a favor, I would be eternally grateful.

Thank you...


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 Post subject: Re: Antique Radio Shipping Damage Repair Estimate
PostPosted: Feb Thu 08, 2018 10:55 pm 
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Joined: Apr Tue 07, 2015 8:31 pm
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Location: Blue Lake, ME
As far as USPS is concerned, here is a link to their claims procedure:
http://about.usps.com/publications/pub1 ... 16_toc.htm

... and following is a quote regarding the repair cost estimates they accept and their limit of reimbursement:

“..Estimates of repair costs from a reputable dealer, or paid repair bills. A reputable dealer is defined as a licensed business owner who is qualified to estimate value or cost of repairs for the item. We will not cover repair costs above the original purchase price...

Also, I believe a properly packed radio requires its chassis very well secured against the inevitable g forces of dropping, bouncing, and kicking a package will experience in its travels.

Best of luck.


Last edited by Oldmaine on Feb Thu 08, 2018 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Antique Radio Shipping Damage Repair Estimate
PostPosted: Feb Thu 08, 2018 11:17 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 26722
Location: Detroit, MI USA
It's always been that way, they will only accept damage repair estimates from established, licensed brick and mortar businesses. Doubt that any of those would write you a free estimate as most charge for examining a unit and giving an estimate.

I don't even want to get into the packing issues. Based upon your description of how it was packed, I'm amazed it wasn't totally demolished. You simply can't pack something that heavy using that sort of material in the manner it was done unless you are transporting, loading and unloading it yourself. Even that would be risky.

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Dennis

Experience is what you gain when the results aren't what you were expecting.


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 Post subject: Re: Antique Radio Shipping Damage Repair Estimate
PostPosted: Feb Thu 08, 2018 11:45 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
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Location: Albuquerque, NM 87123
This why I will double box items like this; almost never have any damage.


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 Post subject: Re: Antique Radio Shipping Damage Repair Estimate
PostPosted: Feb Thu 08, 2018 11:55 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
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Location: Detroit, MI USA
Johnnysan wrote:
This why I will double box items like this; almost never have any damage.



Yes, that's mandatory. Anyone who thinks it isn't shouldn't be packing and shipping fragile items. You can expect drops of several feet off the conveyors onto a concrete floor at any of the shipper's regional centers, and your item could easily pass through several of those facilities on it's journey. Not to mention the truck drivers who have to unload the item and bring it to the door........

Anything you ship has to be packed well enough and secured well enough inside the packing to survive multiple drops of several feet onto a hard surface.

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Experience is what you gain when the results aren't what you were expecting.


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 Post subject: Re: Antique Radio Shipping Damage Repair Estimate
PostPosted: Feb Fri 09, 2018 12:15 am 
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The radio was surrounded by thick foam. It was the kind of foam that can be used instead of a mattress. I instructed the shipper to double box, but he did not do that.

There was also stuffing inside the radio and the chassis was bolted securely to the bottom of the cabinet.

I can only conclude that this was dropped from quite a height. The tape player is made with a lot of heavy steel parts and I imagine the inertia skewed the cabinet, which is less than 1/2" particle board, and the cabinet cracked. Once the cabinet was cracked things jiggled more for the rest of the journey.

The box was labeled FRAGILE GLASS on all 6 sides with very thick letters. The shipping was expensive. The real issue is that no one cares. They get paid the same if they throw packages or if they handle with care.

I still hope top be able to get an estimate, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Antique Radio Shipping Damage Repair Estimate
PostPosted: Feb Fri 09, 2018 12:41 am 
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Location: S. Dartmouth MA 02748-1225 USA
As stated, the estimate must come from someone who rebuild/repairs radios for a business. Such a business would not sign to an estimate for free.

Expect that there will be service charge, on the company letterhead, for the estimate as well as a signature of the responsible party. IMHO at least 10% of the total estimate.

See the listings here:

http://antiqueradios.com/resources/Repa ... storation/

YMMV

Chas


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 Post subject: Re: Antique Radio Shipping Damage Repair Estimate
PostPosted: Feb Fri 09, 2018 3:42 pm 
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Posts: 11796
Location: 06457
Concensus after sifting through the posts is get a refund, keep the pile for parts and look for another.


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 Post subject: Re: Antique Radio Shipping Damage Repair Estimate
PostPosted: Feb Sat 10, 2018 6:26 am 
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Location: Thornhill, Ontario
Claim all your sunk costs. Negotiate to get the now scrap radio as junk parts, as an extra (the insurers don't want it.) You will not do better than this.
Cheers,
Roger

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Thornhill, Ontario
Ontario Vintage Radio Assoc. http://www.ovra.ca


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 Post subject: Re: Antique Radio Shipping Damage Repair Estimate
PostPosted: Feb Sat 10, 2018 4:51 pm 
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First, thank you all for your valuable advice.

I've considered everything that everyone said and made a decision. I will try to get paid for the total insured value, which was 500 Euros and try to convince the insurer to let me keep the radio, because its value is more than what it was insured for and also because it would be a shame to scrap the parts that might have some value for any future repairs.

Hopefully they will accept that, I will get paid, keep the radio and that will be that.

If they don't accept I will have to think of alternatives.

In any event, I have the intention to keep the radio and rebuild it. Since I am an experienced instrument builder and woodworker I know I have the experience and the tools to rebuild this cabinet. I already ordered the caps and I intend to power it up once recapped. If there are any problems with the electronic functions I'll have to ask for help.

I will also post photos of my progress, either in this thread or I might start another thread. Perhaps documenting my work will help others in the future, that might want to rebuild a smashed cabinet.

Again, thank you all for your valuable input.


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 Post subject: Re: Antique Radio Shipping Damage Repair Estimate
PostPosted: Feb Sat 10, 2018 5:23 pm 
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Location: Ironwood, MI
Mr. Detrola wrote:
You can expect drops of several feet off the conveyors onto a concrete floor at any of the shipper's regional centers, and your item could easily pass through several of those facilities on it's journey. .


The "accepted standard" of vulnerability with FedEx and UPS is considered as a drop of 4 feet to concrete.


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