Heads up for every one!!!

My Dad Has a Chevy Lumina and His warning light keeps going on. He had the same problem in 2004. Found out that the gaskets keep leaking after a couple of years allowing the antifreeze to get into the intake or exhaust manifold. Computer says time to light the warning light. Come to find out that the Orange colored antifreeze is very corrosive and a lot of GM cars are having the symtoms of leaking. (Shame on the Manufacturer.) Our Garage Shop says the Green type is safe. Another thing dont mix the green and orange types togather it will turn into a jelly.
The owner also stated that there is a lawsuit aganst the antifreeze manufacturer.

Hi, I voted mostly because we did the headgasket thing and went green, and still ticking. It was discussed here before, but the new audience should be informed too.

This problem has existed for years with GM 3.1 and 3.8 V-6 engines. Do a search on the web and you will find sites dedicated to this problem by people who have been screwed by GM.

I had a 1998 Pontiac Bonneville that had this happen to it. The intake manifolds are defective, and will distort at some point allowing coolant into the engine. You have a better chance at the engine blowing up than not. When this happened to me, I was able to turn the engine off quickly. Using Mobil-1 also probably provided a measure of protection to the engine.

I had a Pontiac dealer repair it to the tune of $1000.00. I began to research the problem on the internet and found that thousands of these engines were having the same problem. Intake manifolds should last 40 years and they were going bad to cars that were only a few years old.

GM was unresponsive to my inquiries about the problem and refused to reimburse me for the repair. I then got hold of the email addresses of the corporate execs and flooded them with my complaint. I finally got a call from a very snotty 'woman' who reminded me of what some old maid school teachers were like. I bit my tongue while she talked and finally got them to pay 1/3 of my bill. I had to also sign a release.

Now that Toyota has cleaned GM's clock, I feel little pity towards them having dealt with their management and dealerships. And I hope that woman who enjoyed her power trip with me on this is now asking if you want fries with that....

The orange antifreeze [ dex cool ] is what is known as organic acid technology. My NAPA dealer gave a clinic on cooling systems a couple of years ago, and the Dexcool issue was discussed at length. It is corrosive in brass, copper radiators as it deteriorates the solder used to build the radiator. GM had problems with Dexcool in the early 90's cars. It wasn't supposed to be used, but was many times installed by the dealer or independant shop when the cooling system was serviced. That's when the majority of the problems started. It has a 5 year 100,000 mile life when used correctly. All of the newer GM cars come with Dexcool installed as the original fill and newer Fords and Chrysler products have their own formulations along with the import manufacturers. The stuff is NOT interchangeable among different manufacturers and using the green stuff will void the warranty on the newer cars. Harry

Yes, true. Local radio show her in Baltimore has been recommending a thorough flush and replacement with the regular ethylene glycol for years. I do have a 97 Cavalier with a 2.2L engine , 120K miles and have had no problems whatsoever. But I replace the anti-freeze at least every three years.

A friend who worked at GM dealerships refers to the Dex Cool as Dex Clog...

Tom

My Mazda truck (built in NJ by Ford!!), came with a "SPECIAL" yellow antifreeze. They also came with an orange and a green, depending on how sober the guy on the line was the day it was built. None were compatible and two different dealers had no idea what I was talking about during the first year I owned it. I kept loosing small amounts of coolant and had to add distilled water until I could sort it out.

Long story short, I got lucky and finally spotted the pinhole radiator leak and replaced under warranty. I demanded that the entire system be flushed and green used as the replacement.

Except for the "technician" who slept through hose clamps 101 and I lost most of my coolant on the way home, after I tightened everything up and no dealer has touched it since, it has been trouble free for almost 60,000 miles.

The 2.8 and 3.1 GM V-6's seem to have a problem with the intake manifold gaskets, there's an odd angle between the intake manifold and the head and the bolts are angled in such a way that the gaskets aren't held tight. A lot of these engines have been destroyed by intake gasket failure allowing the coolant to pour into the oil pan and causing catastrophic engine failure, ie rod seizure and breakage.

That being said my Daughter has a 1998 Buick Century 3.1 V-6 with 200,000 miles on it now the only engine problem so far was a water pump leaking last week. It runs great and uses no oil between changes, so they all aren't bad.

We purchased a new 1991 Pontiac transport with the 3.1 V6. In 1995, when the machine had about 65,000 miles on it, the engine began to knock.

The dealer informed us that there was a recall on this machine, and they REPLACED the engine at no charge. shortly thereafter, we began a 4 year stint of scouring the eastern
U. S. for antiques (mostly crockery, as in staffordshire ware, Old Paris, Sevres, Meissen, good old enamelware, and small eighteenth century furniture items.)

By 1999 we had 478,000 on the clock. The only major repairs were a couple of alternators and batteries (boy, the battery replacement on this car is a chore!), a water pump, and a few patches ot the exhaust system (of the fence wire, stove pipe, and furnace cement variety).

The machine was finally killed by an oncoming car which crossed the center line on a narrow country road in Virginia.

I have no problems with the 3.1 V6!

* Reminder to self, Don't buy a chevy.

Thanks for the info it opened my eyes

All of the car makers build lemons! Ask around and you will hear something negative about all of them . A case in point is the automatic transmisssion in some Hondas that fails around the 90000 mile mark!
I'll stick to my trusty 1962 Studebaker Hawk (bunch of miles) and my 2001 Dodge Dakota (190,000 mi)
Chuck

I have 1962 Stude Hawk. I bought it in 1975, rebuilt the engine to R1 specs with an R3 cam in 1977. I bought it because it has a factory four speed in it. It's been a great car to drive, too bad it doesn't like modern ethanol loaded gas, though it's not quite as unhappy as my Avanti is on the junk gas. The Hawk is where I learned the hard way about Dexcool in old copper- brass radiators. I had to have the radiator repaired because it ate the solder out of the tank seams. Harry

I own a tyre auto repair shop. See the "Death Cool" problem often. Just today I saved 2 GM 4.3 vin(W) motors from heater core replacement. Both came in with low-no heat complaints. One heater hose hot about 175 degs and the other about 85 degs. Measured with a no-contact thermomater. Replaced thermostats and flushed heater cores. The sploogze out the heater hoses was unreal. Backflushed each core 5 or 6 times. Went from no heat (Really none) to great heat. At my shop I use Mitchell on Demand and when they give a 17 page flushing producure for S-10's and blazers you really have to wonder. GM 3.4L, 4.3L(W), 4.3L(Z), as well as 3.1,3.8, all have the problem. Easy way to tell- just open the hood of your gm death-cool vehicle and see where your coolant level is in your expansion bottle. Can't see it because of dark brown fingers of sludge down the sides? Removed the radiator cap to check AF protection level(temp) and found brown-gray sludge? Customer stand point worse ever anti-freeze, my stand point no comment($) dave

[quote="Big Harry"]I have 1962 Stude Hawk. I bought it in 1975, rebuilt the engine to R1 specs with an R3 cam in 1977. I bought it because it has a factory four speed in it. It's been a great car to drive, too bad it doesn't like modern ethanol loaded gas, though it's not quite as unhappy as my Avanti is on the junk gas. The Hawk is where I learned the hard way about Dexcool in old copper- brass radiators. I had to have the radiator repaired because it ate the solder out of the tank seams. Harry[/quote

Hey Big Harry, I'm glad to hear from another 62 GT owner!v I've always kept the old green coolant in my Stude as well as my Dodge truck with no problems. I have not force fed the Hawk ethonal fuel yet and hope I don't have to.]

Chuck

Chuck be glad that you don't have to feed your old Hawk gas with ethanol added. The stuff is deadly to the fuel systems of the older cars. We're having problems with neoprene fuel line failures and corroded fuel system parts. The alcohol in the gas sucks up water faster than a sponge, not to mention the decrease in fuel mileage. I add either Marvel Mystery Oil or Lucas Fuel Additive to the fuel to counteract the effects of the ethanol. I have Dexcool in my 2005 Chevy Silverado as a factory fill and so far I haven't had any problems. I think that GM has made improvements to the cooling systems to stop the problems with the antifreeze. Harry

Here's the thing on Dex Cool.
I think they call it Dex Clog just about everywhere.
The stuff is considered to be an extended life antifreeze. But that could only be the case in a perfect wrold
According to a G.M. training instructor, you would have to have no air in the system, the cap never removed and coolant never checked or added. Also, no small leaks of any kind. Not even undetectable leaks.
In that case, the Dex Cool would work as an extended life antifreeze. Maybe.
In the real world, it must be changed as often, or sooner, than the standard Ethylene Glycol green stuff.

If your car has Dex Cool, and you want to change it out, you can. But wait 'till the warranty's off first.
To do it, though, you must completely purge your system. This means much more than a flush and fill. You'll have to drain the system, fill it with pure water and run it for a day or two, and then flush it and fill with water again. Repeat the process three or four times to make sure all the Dex Cool is gone from the system.
Then fill with the standard mixture of DISTILLED water and green antifreeze.

There is a better way, too.
Honda has their own special antifreeze. It's blue.
According to Honda, it is compatible with all other antifreezes. It is extended life antifreeze, and actually works as an extended life antifreeze. Coolant flushes on Honda's are recommended at, IIRC 50,000 mile intervals.
The Honda blue stuff costs less than the green stuff, at least in this area. It's premixed with deionized water, but at around $6 per gallon vs. around 10 to 12 for the green, it's the better deal. Ok for use in all cars, but possibly not a good idea until you've run out of warranty.

The Dex Cool did not cause the intake manifold leaks mentioned in posts above. These engines would most likely have developed those leaks regardless of the antifreeze used.
Many engines with wet aluminum intake manifolds will develope leaks. Generally V type engines. They've been doing that since the 80's when car makers began switching to aluminum intakes to cut weight. They were a problem then, and still are. Although it is not as common today as in the 80's.
It's important to check your coolant at regular intervals. If any coolant needs to be added, you have a leak somewhere. Best find it before it stings you. Coolant in a modern seales system doesn't just evaporate. If you're losing coolant, you have a leak. It could be an intake manifold. If it is, it's not an expensive fix if you catch it before it ruins the engine.

Dex Cool is the likely culprit in the cars that were clogged up with gumbo. Partly, anyway. Many owners don't change the Dex Cool and flush the system every two years, and they don't likely use distilled water. They also might add the wrong antifreeze to top things off after having lost coolant for some reason. This will also cause it to coagulate. That stuff just ain't user friendly.

I am not a fan of Dex Cool. Not at all. But it is in my wife's '98 Cadillac STS, which came from the factory with Dex. It still has it because I haven't felt like doing the flush out work. Instead, I've just flushed the system every two years. I also use DISTILLED water. The car has had no problem. But then, it only has just reached 150K miles, so that's no surprise. If it makes it past 200K with no problem, that's a surprise.
Interestingly, Cadillac's with the Northstar engine have, since about 1997 and until about 2003, had a good chance of head gasket failure. That coincides with the switch to Dex Cool for new GM cars. Pre 1997 have no problem with head gaskets at all.
It also could be unrelated to Dex Cool, but it is an interesting coincidence.
Mark D.

I know about this one. I own a GMC Sonoma SLS with the 4.3L V6 Vortec vin W series. Great truck, 232k Kilometers (~150K miles) on it, still starts like new. But a year ago I had no heat at all, and the heater core was all gummed up, brown stuff in the coolant reservoir. I took it in to the best radiator place in town, and they told me all about Dexcool and how it clogs up everything. I now use the green stuff, no more funny smell under the hood either. I just have to find a leak somewhere, I loose about a liter of fluid every 2 weeks. I just replaced the water pump and tightened a whole bunch of clamps, but some fluid still drips on the ground, especially after a long drive. I'll find it yet, just too many other projects on the go at the moment.