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 Post subject: Re: So How Was Kutztown??
PostPosted: May Wed 17, 2017 2:58 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 161
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Yes, Friday early vendor set up with the public entering a few hours later is being considered. That seems to be the best compromise for all. To be fair, the vendors deserve some time to get their wares displayed without dealing with buyers trying to climb into their vehicles. Comments on this are welcome and will be passed on to the organizers.

Also yes, as I understand it, it is the policy at present and going forward, the public is not permitted on the grounds until the meet officially begins on Friday. Vendors will need to follow their instructions in the packets from Renningers. If they continue to allow Thursday vendor set up, expect that it will be later in the day. Don't show up at 8am on Thursday expecting to crash the gate.

Pixellany, I agree with your comment about the auction. It was the last stop for some items to keep the vendors from lugging them home. On the other hand, that made for some real rough lots to be sold, I think the club was trying to bring the quality of items up as well as boost attendance with Friday eve. Pete Grave and his crew do an outstanding job with the auction, it's more work to run than it looks. Comments are welcome regarding any feedback to the auction format.


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 Post subject: Re: So How Was Kutztown??
PostPosted: May Wed 17, 2017 4:33 pm 
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I hope they keep the Thursday setup as it is.

I often come with my van somewhat loaded and want to empty it so i can bed down for Thursday night. if setup isnt allowed until Friday morning, then i have nowhere to sleep, except maybe the front seat...

the thing i see is the Kutztown meet is flourishing while many other radio meets and hamfests are dieing off.

Regulating things more and forcing rules may have a negative effect on this growth. We have a wonderful thing going! i dont want to see it die...

-Steve

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 Post subject: Re: So How Was Kutztown??
PostPosted: May Wed 17, 2017 5:20 pm 
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Location: Ferdinand, IN
+100 what Steve (azenithnut) said above...

Now, J.N., you asked for comments; I offered some which you seem to have taken offense to. (If I am wrong, I apologize in advance.) It was never my intention to be offensive; I was merely offering my opinion as many others have done. Having said that, there are a few points you made which I would like to address, and then I will say no more about the matter here.

> Renninger's sent out a vendor's packet that clearly stated the gates opened at noon.

I know that. Don't patronize me.

> Nowhere was the actual swap ever advertised for Thursday.

Um, yes it was - last year. That was my point - last year, early bird buyers were admitted on Thursday after paying an early bird premium at the gate. So Renningers decided to do away with that. That is certainly their right to do so. The only mention of Thursday this year was for vendor setup to begin at noon, yes.

> Without question, Thursday hurt the Saturday show.

Last week, the rain hurt the Saturday show. As I believe I said previously, one can not do anything about the weather. As people around Southern Indiana like to say, "it is what it is."

> Again, this is Renninger's property and in a sense we are guests, so in the end they get the final word.

Agreed.

> They didn't like taking three days from work (leaving home on Wednesday) and including the expense of another night in a hotel.

I took six days off work because this has become my main vacation time. We toured the Yuengling brewery on Wednesday, enjoyed pizza at Snuzzle's that evening, and were in line on Thursday for the noon opening for vendor setup. Those were the new rules, and as I stated previously, I understand why the rules were changed.

> As far as tables being covered, that's the discretion of the individual sellers.

Of course it is.

> I didn't see tables covered much past 7am or shortly thereafter.

I was in the main pavilion at 8 am on Friday morning and 60-70% of the tables were still covered. There were some tables still covered at 9 am. So naturally I wondered to myself at the time, "what the heck is going on here?" It was a valid question.

Well, that's about all...

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 Post subject: Re: So How Was Kutztown??
PostPosted: May Wed 17, 2017 5:59 pm 
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Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Ron, i absolutely took no offense then, and I don't now. I just thought it odd you were upset about waiting to get in when the gate time was posted. I apologize if I offended you. In years' past they experimented with Thursday buying and it didn't work out; it created more problems than it solved. My comment was in regards to this year's meet; all of the info for the May show purposely omitted Thursday. Thursday in general has proven to be a detriment to Saturday over many shows now, not just this one. Most guys have about two days endurance in them for this sort of event, and then they are done. Yes, you were quite correct, the rain that came in on Saturday doomed things under any circumstances. Lastly, I appreciate you were able to take 6 days off for the show; please understand many people cannot, they are important to the show as well. I will pass on your comments; I assure you they are most welcome and your opinion matters. Please do not feel my clarification of some points meant any kind of rudeness or criticism.


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 Post subject: Re: So How Was Kutztown??
PostPosted: May Wed 17, 2017 6:14 pm 
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Location: Ferdinand, IN
Thank you, J.N. I feel better now, having read your last post. Unfortunately the sterile blandness of posting on an online forum tends to obfuscate the true intentions/feelings of the poster, so postings sometimes can come across with a totally different meaning to the reader as they did to the poster.

I was not, repeat, not upset about waiting to get in on Thursday. If I conveyed that feeling, I am sorry as that was certainly not my intention. Thursday noon entry was the rule as clearly stated; I was well aware of the changes, having received my own vendor packet in the mail. I (and everyone there) are guests of Renningers and DVHRC, and I want to be a good and conscientious guest. :)

And, although I do not camp out on the grounds (wife and I stay at a nearby hotel), I too would like to see things remain as they are now rather than a change to a Friday morning setup.

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 Post subject: Re: So How Was Kutztown??
PostPosted: May Wed 17, 2017 7:57 pm 
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I think the change to a Thursday noon set-up for vendors only was a very good compromise and I hope they stick with that schedule. I think the early lines were vendors hoping they could get in early, but as the rules are enforced less will show up much before noon and it will flow a lot smoother.

I think I preferred the auction on Saturday, but I understand the reasoning for the switch to Friday and will be content for the day that works out best for the auction crew and club.

We are usually one of the last to leave on Saturday, but the rain, cold, and a 600 mile trip home convinced us to pack-up about 11:00.

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 Post subject: Re: So How Was Kutztown??
PostPosted: May Wed 17, 2017 9:29 pm 
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In case it didn't come across right in my earlier post, I like the Thursday setup, even with the new stricter rules. Trying to get there and set up in time on a Friday morning would, for me, be a hinderance, possibly a game breaker. I'm too old (76) to push it that hard. I have enough trouble getting myself up and going early enough to drive there and be uncovered by 7:30-8:00 on a Friday and I know I'm not the only old coot in a similar situation who does the show.

Larry

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 Post subject: Re: So How Was Kutztown??
PostPosted: May Wed 17, 2017 11:29 pm 
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Me too Larry. I am a fossil also and need the time on Thursday to unhook and set up the trailer and drag the big thins out and cover them.

With regard to the Kutztown meet as it current stands: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"


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 Post subject: Re: So How Was Kutztown??
PostPosted: May Thu 18, 2017 12:14 am 
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Joe, Larry, and John. Your input is much appreciated and will be passed on to Lewie and Renningers. No one has a problem giving vendors a courtesy time to come in and set up. This was rather abused, so Thursday as a full fledged meet day is not likely to return. We were basically paying for two days and taking three. I would expect some ability for vendors to have a LATE Thursday arrival will remain. Renningers gets the final word as they have to pay their Thursday staff and the added electric and security for the night.

None of this is an issue of "if it ain't broke don't fix it. " it's a matter of heading off issues before they become detrimental to the meet in general. This has been done behind the scenes in slow increments for years. Everything from the portable lavatories, to parking, food service, check in, preregistration: all changes that were made to improve aspects of the show. Even though most people think this meet just "happens", there's much work done quietly to see that it does. In an era of changing tastes, everyone wants this event to continue for a long time. That will require some forethought......


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 Post subject: Re: So How Was Kutztown??
PostPosted: May Thu 18, 2017 3:45 am 
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I thought it was fairly well run. No big complaints, though I wish there was a water spigot to wash my hands somewhere near the outhouses.

I enjoyed meeting everyone there, Ron, John, Mark, Matt, JD and countless others I can't recall right now.

I'd also like to give a shout-out to John, (Elliot Ness) for being a true gentleman. I really goofed up and said something I shouldn't have said to John. Thankfully, he was kind enough to forgive my transgression. I STILL feel pretty awful about the misunderstanding and promise to be a better person in the future.

John, I truly appreciate your understanding!
Mitch


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 Post subject: Re: So How Was Kutztown??
PostPosted: May Thu 18, 2017 1:27 pm 
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There is a spigot on the side of the food pavilion facing the meet. They usually have a soap dispenser there too.
It has changed a bit since they added the concrete slab.

I carry a canister of Wet-Ones to freshen up with.

-Steve

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 Post subject: Re: So How Was Kutztown??
PostPosted: May Thu 18, 2017 3:31 pm 
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Good to see the important details being worked out here.......;)

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 Post subject: Re: So How Was Kutztown??
PostPosted: May Thu 18, 2017 8:12 pm 
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pixellany wrote:
Good to see the important details being worked out here.......;)

Sure, why not? Most campgrounds and other public places have spigots adjacent to the pavilions. Basic hygiene is important, especially with an older crowd.

Of course I could have walked all the way to the far side of the long building to use the facilities, but I really didn't want to leave my booth unattended for long when customers were buying.

Appreciate the heads up on the spigot near the food stand. Good tip on the wet ones. Thank you.

Mitch


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 Post subject: Re: So How Was Kutztown??
PostPosted: May Thu 18, 2017 8:57 pm 
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Friday is a buying and selling day, Period. Shortening it by taking vendor set up away on Thursday and having vendor set up first on Friday would be a deal breaker for me and most likely any other vendor with a long drive.

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 Post subject: Re: So How Was Kutztown??
PostPosted: May Fri 19, 2017 1:51 pm 
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Steve Johnson wrote:
Friday is a buying and selling day, Period. Shortening it by taking vendor set up away on Thursday and having vendor set up first on Friday would be a deal breaker for me and most likely any other vendor with a long drive.

Got it!!
But are you saying that things do not sell on Saturday? Also, your comment suggests you would favor the auction on Saturday.

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 Post subject: Re: So How Was Kutztown??
PostPosted: May Fri 19, 2017 2:06 pm 
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Hi Steve, duly noted. I was at Lewie's last night and Kutztown was a topic for several hours. There is always a post-meet check-in with Renninger's, and that is coming as well. Lewie is watching this thread and will likely comment with the final word. I've had about 2 dozen emails in my regular inbox over the past couple days as well what was posted here. Your comments are heard and some Thursday accommodation is likely to remain, provided it is for a late day arrival. Lewie deserves credit for keeping vendor fees reasonable in his talks with Renningers. Their rates for other shows are many times what we pay as vendors now. Keep in mind the costs they incur for even late Thursday expenses will get passed to us at some point. We've sort of taken Thursdays for free for quite awhile, and that's not likely to continue. The earlier we insist on being there, the more likely it will affect table costs. We tend to query the vendors at the meet about their thoughts, and the consensus is to hold costs where they are now or as close as possible. That will require some cooperation from the vendors not to gate-crash too early. The added benefit is vendors aren't entering their third day of work Saturday morning, and so hopefully will continue to see that as viable day. I am told there will be a significant vendor-appreciation gesture for those who see Saturday through.

As for fresh water, it is always available at the food pavilion. Recent attendees may have noticed that floor is a new concrete slab as well. Renningers added underground lines for us, so hand-washing facilities are available at the front side of that pavilion. I would not expect water lines run to the far end of the property for the lower series of portable lavatories. That would be a little much to ask of them. On the whole, you have to consider what they do provide: spaces under cover including your table, electric to display and demonstrate your wares, lights run day and night with security, free camping if one desires, hot showers available, and they even agree to dig us a pit for the infamous bonfires.

We have a good location made even better by great people: the sun-up to sundown broadcasting would not be possible without the work of Mike Koste (The Voice of Kutztown), the work of Peter Wieck (helping folks with repairs and manning the transmitters), Dave Snellman (who usually gets buried in paperwork), Lewie (who's championed the meet from day one), Pete Grave (who spearheads the auction), the club guys who staff the table, and a myriad of others who work hard to give us the twice a-year festivities. It's always a balancing act to keep everyone happy, keep costs as low as possible, and ensure the meet stays on track. This has gone far beyond my original intent of posting and I've said about all I have any right to say on the matter. I'll defer any discussion to Lewie from here on out. Thank you guys for your input, hopefully this cleared up some of the confusion or reasoning behind the changes. I sincerely look forward to seeing many of you in the fall.


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 Post subject: Re: So How Was Kutztown??
PostPosted: May Fri 19, 2017 2:28 pm 
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J.N, I do want to thank you and Lewie as well as the rest of the staff who work hard to make Kutztown a success.

I apologize for not saying this earlier.

It is by far the best show going these days.

Thanks!
-Steve

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 Post subject: Re: So How Was Kutztown??
PostPosted: May Fri 19, 2017 2:49 pm 
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azenithnut wrote:
J.N, I do want to thank you and Lewie as well as the rest of the staff who work hard to make Kutztown a success.

I apologize for not saying this earlier.

It is by far the best show going these days.

Thanks!
-Steve

+1, what he said.

Larry

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 Post subject: Re: So How Was Kutztown??
PostPosted: May Fri 19, 2017 9:49 pm 
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J.N.,

As stated above, thank you for all your time and hard work to make Kutztown a success!

Just a thought.... would turning off half the lights at 11pm save enough money to make it worthwhile? I think Renninger's had a lot of energy saving bulbs installed, so it may be a mute point.

BTW, the floor in the second pavilion appeared to be asphalt. Can't remember what the first pavilion was. Only did a few quick walks through the first pavilion, (didn't want to be tempted too much)!

Great show! I had a lot of fun,
Mitch


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 Post subject: Re: So How Was Kutztown??
PostPosted: May Fri 19, 2017 10:17 pm 
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Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Mitch, The poured concrete floor I referenced is in the food service pavilion. For many years it was simply gravel. As for the lights, they stay on all night to help keep everything well lit and secure. In 18 years of meets, there's never been an issue with security problems, and I think the both Renningers and the club want to insure it stays that way. As for thanks, any part I have in the meet is pretty insignificant, thank those guys I mentioned above. Justin


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