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 Post subject: Re: Gift Guitar changes George's sound 1969
PostPosted: Mar Sat 24, 2018 4:33 pm 
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I heard a guy say once that George wasn't that good of a guitar player - but then he went right back and said, "What am I saying? He was lead guitar of the Beatles."

On the other hand, Ravi Shankar said he was a terrible Sitar player - and George agreed, even though he was lead Sitar player of The Beatles. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Gift Guitar changes George's sound 1969
PostPosted: Mar Sun 25, 2018 5:27 pm 
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Thanks, Ken. George wrote that song for EC, they say to help him out of a slump in creativity.
You notice Clapton wears glasses? Well he didn't have glasses in those days, and where George wrote "bridge", Clapton saw "Badge".
We heard the song on the radio and tried to come up with meanings for the title. :lol:

Everybody's welcome to voice an opinion, even a distorted one.
Nobody here said George was the best guitar player, and George never claimed he was.
We are simply discussing the sounds and styling of certain musicians from that era, and how a gift guitar affected George's playing.
Watch the videos of Jimmy Page when he took over the Yardbirds lead guitar spot from Jeff Beck. He's a natural. Still, he's not the very best. And while George continued to evolve and change his style, many players develop a signature sound and stay with it throughout their careers, I should say most do that.
Carlos Santana is incredible, but he would say there are better than him.

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 Post subject: Re: Gift Guitar changes George's sound 1969
PostPosted: Mar Tue 27, 2018 3:25 am 
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Ken Doyle wrote:
Your post is a load of crud. Anyone with a working pair or ears can recognize George's guitar playing the solos on 95+% of Beatles records. The Beatles chose not to tour anymore because they didn't enjoy not being able to hear themselves over the screaming girls and chose to concentrate on making records. George was an excellent lead guitar player. Note that George played the slide solo on the Cream record Badge because he was invited by none other than Eric Clapton


You're welcome to your own opinion, but not to your own set of facts. You could look it up - don't take my word for it, it's true! He was a kind soul, I'm sure, but as a lead guitarist he pretty much sucked. Taking just one song - I'm not going to do your homework for you, you can look it up - and it was his his own song - "Taxman" has a blistering lead guitar solo. Except, that isn't George! It's Paul McCartney! Fact. Clapton? Well OK. Another way overrated guitarist.

The weird thing about the Beatles is they are a "Baby Boomer" touchstone, and their worship is something that is taken as a given and must be adhered to by younger generations, who aren't having any if that. I listened to them a lot, along with a lot of that era's stuff, and have come to the conclusion they really did put out a LOT of crap, in addition to some gems. McCartney was a genius, and extremely talented, but they really laid on the BS pretty thick as well.

As far as guitar skill, that may be a topic for another post. I don't think a lot of those 60s rock guys even rate. A few of the session guys do. I guess at least the four lads could play their own instruments.

Have you seen the kit that they used on tour? Pathetic. I've seen better amps with local bar bands. No wonder they couldn't hear themself play. LOL!! They could have you know, toured with an actual sound system worthy of the name.


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 Post subject: Re: Gift Guitar changes George's sound 1969
PostPosted: Mar Tue 27, 2018 8:47 pm 
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How old are you Ted?

The Beatles were the first to play stadiums - nobody at that time knew how do that. The thought was just stack up as many amps and speakers as you could lay your hands on and go for it. Not too effective, they soon discovered.

I agree there are some acts since then and even now that if they were around then would be legendary now, but the market is too fractured and saturated for that (but that also is another topic). The simple fact is that The Beatles and others are legends precisely because they were the best of their time - they earned their reputation, their place in music history. It's hard to argue with success - at least for some people - but of course there's always someone who's not going to take it seriously. I'm sure they think it makes them look discriminating and knowledgeable, but actually, it doesn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Gift Guitar changes George's sound 1969
PostPosted: Mar Wed 28, 2018 12:31 am 
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Sol wrote:
The Beatles were the first to play stadiums - nobody at that time knew how do that. The thought was just stack up as many amps and speakers as you could lay your hands on and go for it.


Except, unfortunately, that isn't what they did. As one of the, if not the most, popular bands of the time they certainly should have stacked up as many amps and speakers as they could in a place like Shea Stadium - you're probably right about that - and just look at the photographs of what they DID have. Pathetic. And it's not rocket science, if you can't hear yourself play - guess what - you need some monitors, you need some more amps, you need some more speakers.

They had nothing even remotely close to being usable for venues of that size, which they tried to augment, I guess, by plugging into the stadium or venue PA horns. Maybe they had an excuse in '63 but they kept with the same kit (apparently) till the end. So their excuse of why they quit touring doesn't really hold water anyway. I'm sure they were sick of it.

Anyway I'm not trying to argue George Harrison was a bad guitarist, however for a band that the boomers declare as absolutely the best ever he seems to be awfully weak sauce as a "Lead Guitarist" esp. compared with his contemporaries. On the occasion of the big worldwide satellite "All You Need Is Love" broadcast in 1967 (worldwide live broadcasts relatively new, and a pretty big deal at the time) George played a few bars of his lead solo and ... then.. just stopped. ??

Now the exhibitionist wanking that some lead guitarists are known for doesn't do anything for me either and while "All You Need Is Love" is not one of their better moments, jeeze louise there isn't any there there.


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 Post subject: Re: Gift Guitar changes George's sound 1969
PostPosted: Mar Wed 28, 2018 4:08 pm 
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They say some of Elvis's performances were less than stellar, and the same may be true for Sinatra. I can't say anything bad about Bing, except that his music was published on goofy 78 rpm records, only one song per side.
If you weren't there for the thrill of hearing a new tune from a favorite artist, or if that artist is not a favorite of yours, it is not hard to find fault with the performance, or the production, or the dubbing or the hype, all the many facets of show business.

But since I started this thread, I am now going to ask, Ted, that you show some respect for the man. He is no longer with us, and his music is his legacy. What is yours going to be?

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 Post subject: Re: Gift Guitar changes George's sound 1969
PostPosted: Mar Wed 28, 2018 5:30 pm 
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Of all the things you are wrong on there is simply one thing I must reply to.

Ted wrote:
...while "All You Need Is Love" is not one of their better moments, jeeze louise there isn't any there there.

Just because you don't get it doesn't mean there's no 'there there' - it means you don't get it.

Plenty of other people do.

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 Post subject: Re: Gift Guitar changes George's sound 1969
PostPosted: Apr Sun 01, 2018 3:59 am 
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westcoastjohn wrote:

But since I started this thread, I am now going to ask, Ted, that you show some respect for the man. He is no longer with us, and his music is his legacy. What is yours going to be?


Have I been disrespectful? Or just pointing out some things or a different perspective you don't care for? This is what I meant earlier by the Boomer generation not allowing any criticism whatsoever. Everybody gets their panties in a twist.

My legacy? Well it won't be lecturing people about "materialism" as a multimillionaire, or glorifying drug use, getting blowjobs from random groupies whilst twinkling on my Ukelele. By no means does everyone think the Beatles were a positive legacy. See where I'm going with that?


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 Post subject: Re: Gift Guitar changes George's sound 1969
PostPosted: Apr Sun 01, 2018 4:05 am 
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Sol wrote:
Of all the things you are wrong on there is simply one thing I must reply to.

Ted wrote:
...while "All You Need Is Love" is not one of their better moments, jeeze louise there isn't any there there.

Just because you don't get it doesn't mean there's no 'there there' - it means you don't get it.

Plenty of other people do.


What? He choked. What am I supposed to "get"? That he had stage fright, or ate too much windowpane and the floor was melting or something? It was well known he wasn't particularly good at jamming or spontaneity. I mean that compared to his peers.


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 Post subject: Re: Gift Guitar changes George's sound 1969
PostPosted: Apr Sun 01, 2018 2:14 pm 
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Ted, I've been on this forum nearly twenty years, and in all that time I've never found anybody I needed to ignore - someone whose every post said absolutely nothing of any value, someone whose attitude was so disrespectful and caustic as to require being ignored.

Until now. You go on harassing everyone else with your never-ending nonsense. I'll have nothing more to do with it or with you.

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 Post subject: Re: Gift Guitar changes George's sound 1969
PostPosted: Apr Sun 01, 2018 4:36 pm 
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Ted wrote:
.....but as a lead guitarist he pretty much sucked. .


Ted wrote:
Have I been disrespectful?


I would say yes. It might be fair to say you didn't care for his playing, or that you "don't smoke that brand", but to say he sucked is quite disrespectful, not only to George, but also to all his fans. How can you post crud like this and not expect an argument?


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 Post subject: Re: Gift Guitar changes George's sound 1969
PostPosted: Apr Sun 01, 2018 11:06 pm 
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Talking about George's gift guitar, at least, I was ... George was a very lucky man.
He was lucky to know Paul McCartney when Paul and John were looking for a guitar player.
And on his own, his career would have had a slower takeoff, maybe more on the level of Manfred Mann or Cliff Richards, or maybe not at all.
Most of his best works came after he left the Beatles.

And speaking of left-handed musicians, at least I was, :lol: ... Dick Dale, "King Of The Surf Guitars" plays upside down guitar. I'd have to look up titles, King of the Surf G is one of the few with lyrics. "Mr Peppermint Man" has a rare vocal. Dick Dale and the Deltones.

"The Victor". Here's an old film clip, "Miserlou".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIU0RMV_II8

A left-handed guitar, a Fender Strat, but his strings are put on upside down.

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 Post subject: Re: Gift Guitar changes George's sound 1969
PostPosted: Apr Tue 10, 2018 3:18 am 
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If George didn't do the guitar on all Beatle's tracks does it really matter?

It would be nice to know for sure he did every song, but regardless their music sounds good.

I myself might not care for some artists and musicians, but I would never go so far as to say they suck unless of course it is universally accepted that yes the person sucks.


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 Post subject: Re: Gift Guitar changes George's sound 1969
PostPosted: Apr Tue 10, 2018 3:43 am 
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Tube Radio wrote:
If George didn't do the guitar on all Beatle's tracks does it really matter?

It would be nice to know for sure he did every song, but regardless their music sounds good.

Who played what when is neither here nor there. They played as a group, talented musicians all.

Here's an example of George playing rhythm only while John plays the lead, Paperback Writer. Watch their left hands, and you will see John picking out the riff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYvkICbTZIQ

Another example of John playing lead is the rooftop version of Get Back.
With dubbing in the studio, who can say for sure who's solo was on the record? I already mentioned John on bass for the filming of 'Let it Be'. Paul played both piano and bass on the recording.

"Hey Bulldog" - John handing the Gibson back to George doesn't mean John played all the guitar parts. It means he was showing George a riff to go with the song. George would play that and embellish the riff while John focused on the vocals.

Anyway, there is a lot of music out there to enjoy. Plenty for everyone to choose what they want. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Gift Guitar changes George's sound 1969
PostPosted: Apr Tue 10, 2018 4:36 am 
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westcoastjohn wrote:
Who played what when is neither here nor there. They played as a group, talented musicians all.

Anyway, there is a lot of music out there to enjoy. Plenty for everyone to choose what they want. 8)


Agreed.


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 Post subject: Re: Gift Guitar changes George's sound 1969
PostPosted: May Thu 10, 2018 1:06 am 
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Ahhhhhhhhhhh... 'Badge'. The song that caused me to pick up the Bass !


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 Post subject: Re: Gift Guitar changes George's sound 1969
PostPosted: May Tue 15, 2018 5:02 am 
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PJ WALTERS wrote:
Ahhhhhhhhhhh... 'Badge'. The song that caused me to pick up the Bass !
I wonder what happened to Jack Bruce after Cream? Of course I could Google his career post Cream. He wrote songs, sang most of them and played killer bass.

I remember being surprised there were only 3 members in the band. Songs like "White Room" sounded like an orchestra to me. I just had never heard 100 Watt Marshal amps turned all the way up. Another feature of their sound was that Clapton would sometimes use a Leslie speaker. That, the Wah wah peddle and maybe a slide. They were just an incredibly loud band for the era, and they were the Super Group.

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 Post subject: Re: Gift Guitar changes George's sound 1969
PostPosted: May Tue 15, 2018 11:28 pm 
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westcoastjohn wrote:
...I remember being surprised there were only 3 members in the band. Songs like "White Room" sounded like an orchestra to me. I just had never heard 100 Watt Marshal amps turned all the way up. Another feature of their sound was that Clapton would sometimes use a Leslie speaker. That, the Wah wah peddle and maybe a slide. They were just an incredibly loud band for the era, and they were the Super Group.

Agreed.

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