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Bill Cahill
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Post subject: Re: Raytheon Porthole 16" C-1602 Restoration ... Posted: May Thu 17, 2012 5:34 am |
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Joined: Apr Fri 21, 2006 12:49 am Posts: 9173
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I have the console, and, it has the all glass tube. Bill Cahill
_________________ http://www.tuberadioforum.com/ PLEASE visit Tube Radio Forums-The best forum in the World!
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cwmoser
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Post subject: Re: Raytheon Porthole 16" C-1602 Restoration ... Posted: May Thu 17, 2012 11:33 am |
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am Posts: 3352 Location: Advance, NC USA
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Brian Stroud wrote: This is a neat looking set. The table-top one too. Do they both use the all glass tube or does the console use the metal cone kind? No, but mine does use the metal cone 16AP4. Other versions of this set use the glass cone 16CP4, 16DP4, 16HP4, and 16LP4. There are consoles and table top versions that use the metal cone 12LP4. The 12" console uses a different style cabinet but it looks nice too - in fact at the ETV auction there was also a 12" Raytheon console that got higher bids than my 16" console. This TV has been a joy to work on. It was a very easy recap. The chassis is much less crowded than the Zenith Portholes:  Hardly anything is crowded on this TV. The chassis is large and very well laid out. Nice thing about this TV from a restoration perspective is that the top of the chassis is very open and easy to clean. The CRT Yoke stand is screwed down and the wiring uses a connector so the Yoke is easily removed for cleaning and repainting. All the controls have brass shafts so there is no build up of rust after 60 years. It does have an unusual tuning mechanism - a little more complicated mechanical movements. I cleaned and lubricated the moving parts. Someone mentioned that the tuner mechanism is aliken to a car radio tuner. The chassis is heavy because of that monstrous Power Transformer. From a restoration perspective, the placement of the Power Transformer makes tilting the chassis on its side very stable for recapping. I'm guessing that Raytheon engineers were given a lot of liberty to over design the TV to use quality components and for easy assembly. One other diss is that one knob is slightly warped. Someone posted that they were made of "tenite". The knobs are acceptable but not of same quality as I found on my Zenith Portholes. The back is not metal like the Zenith Portholes. On the back of the Masonite cover is a built-in Antenna which is kinda nice. Carl
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cwmoser
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Post subject: Re: Raytheon Porthole 16" C-1602 Restoration ... Posted: May Thu 17, 2012 12:03 pm |
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am Posts: 3352 Location: Advance, NC USA
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Anyone interested, here is a picture from the ETV Auction showing both Raytheon consoles: Attachment:
TwoRaytheonConsoles-45.jpg [ 245.41 KiB | Viewed 364 times ]
The little console uses the 12" 12LP4 CRT. Its a very attractive console too. Looks like it used the same brass pieces on my TV. I liked the squared wood work. Carl
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cwmoser
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Post subject: Re: Raytheon Porthole 16" C-1602 Restoration ... Posted: May Thu 17, 2012 12:07 pm |
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am Posts: 3352 Location: Advance, NC USA
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Bill Cahill wrote: I have the console, and, it has the all glass tube. Bill Cahill Hey Bill, are you finding the same things on your Raytheon that I found on mine - like the tube ID stamping, that the Yoke stand is a removable assembly, the tuner, solid brass pieces, etc? Carl
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cwmoser
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Post subject: Re: Raytheon Porthole 16" C-1602 Restoration ... Posted: May Thu 17, 2012 3:00 pm |
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am Posts: 3352 Location: Advance, NC USA
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First power up ... I get Sound and Raster: Attachment:
Raster2-800.jpg [ 195.76 KiB | Viewed 353 times ]
Sound is great. 12kv on the anode. For a few minutes I had more height in the Raster and the image was there. I can see the image in the above photo but there is not much vertical. Vertical output tube or that 4500 ohm Resistor I replaced with a 22K? Carl
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Bill Cahill
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Post subject: Re: Raytheon Porthole 16" C-1602 Restoration ... Posted: May Thu 17, 2012 4:24 pm |
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Joined: Apr Fri 21, 2006 12:49 am Posts: 9173
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I do have some brass parts.. Raytheon tebed to use under rated capacitors. Examples are the yoke bypass, and,, damper bypass caps. On the damper, they used only 400 volt caps. On the yoke, only 200 volt. These are way below what the set should have actually had. Why did you paint your cage blue? Originally, they were tin, with cheap tin plating. Mine still has a little of the plating left. Other than that, chassis looks good. I lost my band switch lever. Got any extras? Raytheon made a number of sets under both the Raytheon, and, Airline name. I had to junk an Airline Raytheon because it was beyond repair. You can't save them all.. That one had a plug in yoke. Not sure if my console does, or, not. Probably does.. My picture tube is mounted straight on chassis.
It's a monster!! You won't like the keyed agc circuit. It runs off flyback. Every one of the Airline, and, Raytheon sets I've run into had a vastly different agc, and, sync circuit.
They used a shielded wire to connect agc from flyback to agc circuit. The inner wire is rubber, and, every one has been bad. Don't use regular shielded wire. Due to high ac pulse you must use something heavier such as wire for tv cable systems. That wire seems to be able to handle it. The flyback, if old one is bad, is difficult to find. I had a RAM replacement that only said it needed to be wired one of four ways. It never worked in my Airline Raytheon. Mine had another problem I couldn't solve.
Boost filter feeds right off positive of one of the main filters. The main filter was fine. While set was warming up, boost filter would start to charge up, actually make it to about 100 volts. Then, when damper circuit kicked in, that filter would crash to 0, and, produce negative voltage. Threatenned to blow that filter. Never could find the problem.
They are neat sets, but, a bear to work on.... Bill Cahill
_________________ http://www.tuberadioforum.com/ PLEASE visit Tube Radio Forums-The best forum in the World!
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cwmoser
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Post subject: Re: Raytheon Porthole 16" C-1602 Restoration ... Posted: May Thu 17, 2012 5:48 pm |
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am Posts: 3352 Location: Advance, NC USA
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Replaced the Vertical Output tube (6V6) and tried the other resistor values - no change, vertical height still a problem.
Guess I need to get into the Vertical circuit. Fortunately Raytheon has clearly written Schematics.
Carl
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cwmoser
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Post subject: Re: Raytheon Porthole 16" C-1602 Restoration ... Posted: May Thu 17, 2012 8:42 pm |
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am Posts: 3352 Location: Advance, NC USA
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Bill Cahill wrote: I do have some brass parts.. ... Why did you paint your cage blue? Originally, they were tin, with cheap tin plating. Mine still has a little of the plating left. Other than that, chassis looks good. I lost my band switch lever. Got any extras? ... It's a monster!! You won't like the keyed agc circuit. It runs off flyback. ... They used a shielded wire to connect agc from flyback to agc circuit. The inner wire is rubber, and, every one has been bad. Don't use regular shielded wire. Due to high ac pulse you must use something heavier such as wire for tv cable systems. That wire seems to be able to handle it. The flyback, if old one is bad, is difficult to find. I had a RAM replacement that only said it needed to be wired one of four ways. ... They are neat sets, but, a bear to work on.... Bill Cahill Bill, my Flyback cover had surface rust. I spray painted mine with gray primer and left it with just the primer. It looks blue like in the photo. I don't understand what you say about the AGC connects to the Flyback. Is that HV? Carl
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Bill Cahill
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Post subject: Re: Raytheon Porthole 16" C-1602 Restoration ... Posted: May Thu 17, 2012 9:12 pm |
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Joined: Apr Fri 21, 2006 12:49 am Posts: 9173
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If you look at your schematic, you will see that the AGC has a line going to a winding on the flyback. That's keyed agc. That's good. What's bad is that the initial agc voltage isn't high, the pulse from the hv circuit is also there. That's what can do the most harm. It's approx. 1KV pulse. Not measured with a meter. In fact, flyback, and, damper pulses will destroy most meters. You could get a nasty burn, as well. I was just trying to warn you that if you replace that shielded wire, not to use standard shielded wire. I have 4 different Raytheons, and, the blasted things aren't wired in agc, or, sync circuit the way the schematics show. I think Raytheon was constantly trying to improve those circuits. OOps. I got rid of one, and, am junking an Airline. I only have two Raytheons left. A 12" table model, and, the 16" console. Both portholes. Bill Cahill
_________________ http://www.tuberadioforum.com/ PLEASE visit Tube Radio Forums-The best forum in the World!
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cwmoser
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Post subject: Re: Raytheon Porthole 16" C-1602 Restoration ... Posted: May Thu 17, 2012 9:47 pm |
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am Posts: 3352 Location: Advance, NC USA
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Blocking Oscillator Transformer in the Vertical section, secondary open. Apparently that is the reason for no vertical height. I disconnected the secondary red and blue wires and got no resistance. Power the TV with the secondary disconnected - same issue with no vertical height. Part # B-12M-18241-1 Blocking Oscillator Transformer The primary winding measures 1000 ohms, secondary is open: Attachment:
T5-BlockingOscillatorTransformer-SecondaryOpen.jpeg [ 84.06 KiB | Viewed 333 times ]
Looks like an obtainable transformer if I can figure out the secondary: Attachment:
T5-BlockingOscillatorTransformer-SecondaryOpen-Photo.jpg [ 70.1 KiB | Viewed 333 times ]
Any ideas on how to find a suitable replacement? Thanks Carl
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Bill Cahill
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Post subject: Re: Raytheon Porthole 16" C-1602 Restoration ... Posted: May Thu 17, 2012 10:07 pm |
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Joined: Apr Fri 21, 2006 12:49 am Posts: 9173
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If you will give the Miller, Thordarson replacement nos. I'll see if I have one in stock. I don't have very many new ones, but, I do have a few... Bill Cahill
_________________ http://www.tuberadioforum.com/ PLEASE visit Tube Radio Forums-The best forum in the World!
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cwmoser
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Post subject: Re: Raytheon Porthole 16" C-1602 Restoration ... Posted: May Thu 17, 2012 10:20 pm |
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am Posts: 3352 Location: Advance, NC USA
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Bill Cahill wrote: If you will give the Miller, Thordarson replacement nos. I'll see if I have one in stock. I don't have very many new ones, but, I do have a few... Bill Cahill I only have Rider TV Manual 5 and it does not have cross reference replacements. Wonder if Sams has that type information? Carl
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Doug66
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Post subject: Re: Raytheon Porthole 16" C-1602 Restoration ... Posted: May Thu 17, 2012 10:28 pm |
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Joined: Mar Wed 30, 2011 5:37 am Posts: 596 Location: GA
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Carl, A Sams ought to have it. That's why I prefer Sams opver Riders. According to my Sams index your set in #99, Folder 14 in case anyther member has a copy of it. I tried Googling your part# and came up with nothing.
Doug
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cwmoser
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Post subject: Re: Raytheon Porthole 16" C-1602 Restoration ... Posted: May Thu 17, 2012 11:38 pm |
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am Posts: 3352 Location: Advance, NC USA
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Doug, thanks for the heads up. The only other time I purchased a Sams was for my first Zenith Porthole and all I got was just the Schematic. Big disappointment. Took a chance and followed you advice to download the Sams for my Raytheon. Got 12 pages of very useful information. Thanks again.
Sams has this as: T5 in Riders is T2 in Sams: Vert. Block Osc. Trans. Pri = 180 ohms Sec = 1000 ohms Belmont Part No = B-12M-18241-1 Stancor Part No = A-8111 Merit Part No = A-3000 Chicago Part No = TBO-1
Hey Bill, do you have this? Thanks
Carl
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Donnie74
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Post subject: Re: Raytheon Porthole 16" C-1602 Restoration ... Posted: May Fri 18, 2012 1:57 am |
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Joined: May Thu 17, 2012 8:55 pm Posts: 6
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Tom Schulz
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Post subject: Re: Raytheon Porthole 16" C-1602 Restoration ... Posted: May Fri 18, 2012 3:45 am |
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Joined: Mar Sun 01, 2009 10:27 pm Posts: 2915 Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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Ah, now you can double check the values of those resistors.
You could try pealing back the paper on that transformer to expose where the leads connect to the winding. If the break is there you might be able to fix it.
_________________ Tom
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Bill Cahill
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Post subject: Re: Raytheon Porthole 16" C-1602 Restoration ... Posted: May Fri 18, 2012 4:59 am |
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Joined: Apr Fri 21, 2006 12:49 am Posts: 9173
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cwmoser wrote: Doug, thanks for the heads up. The only other time I purchased a Sams was for my first Zenith Porthole and all I got was just the Schematic. Big disappointment. Took a chance and followed you advice to download the Sams for my Raytheon. Got 12 pages of very useful information. Thanks again.
Sams has this as: T5 in Riders is T2 in Sams: Vert. Block Osc. Trans. Pri = 180 ohms Sec = 1000 ohms Belmont Part No = B-12M-18241-1 Stancor Part No = A-8111 Merit Part No = A-3000 Chicago Part No = TBO-1
Hey Bill, do you have this? Thanks
Carl You may be in luck. I believe I have it in either Stancor, or, Merit. PM me to work out details.... Bill Cahill
_________________ http://www.tuberadioforum.com/ PLEASE visit Tube Radio Forums-The best forum in the World!
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cwmoser
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Post subject: Re: Raytheon Porthole 16" C-1602 Restoration ... Posted: May Fri 18, 2012 1:11 pm |
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am Posts: 3352 Location: Advance, NC USA
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Tom Schulz wrote: Ah, now you can double check the values of those resistors.
You could try pealing back the paper on that transformer to expose where the leads connect to the winding. If the break is there you might be able to fix it. Hmm. Got to remove it anyway. Think I'll give it a go. The Sams that Doug recommended me get indicates that the Secondary is 1000 ohms. The Primary on mine is not open and reads 1000 ohms. Never thought about it but transformer Primaries can be used as Secondaries and Secondaries as Primaries? Carl
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Bill Cahill
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Post subject: Re: Raytheon Porthole 16" C-1602 Restoration ... Posted: May Fri 18, 2012 5:14 pm |
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Joined: Apr Fri 21, 2006 12:49 am Posts: 9173
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No, you can't Your primary is partly open. These transformers are 3to1 ratio. If you reverse it, you will only get a white line. Further, when you have only a white line, keep brightness turned down, or, you will burn the phosphor on the screen. See my pm reply. I have the part. Bill Cahill
_________________ http://www.tuberadioforum.com/ PLEASE visit Tube Radio Forums-The best forum in the World!
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cwmoser
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Post subject: Re: Raytheon Porthole 16" C-1602 Restoration ... Posted: May Fri 18, 2012 5:52 pm |
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am Posts: 3352 Location: Advance, NC USA
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Bill Cahill wrote: No, you can't Your primary is partly open. These transformers are 3to1 ratio. If you reverse it, you will only get a white line. Further, when you have only a white line, keep brightness turned down, or, you will burn the phosphor on the screen. See my pm reply. I have the part. Bill Cahill What prompted me to state that was that I measure 1000 ohms on the primary of the transformer in the circuit - but the specs in SAMs has it that the secondary is 1000 ohms. Made me wonder if the Raytheon designers turned the transformer around. The way is see it, the transformer has a 1000 ohm primary and a 180 ohm secondary. Like, I mentioned, I am actually measuring 1000 ohms on my primary and the secondary is open. Carl
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