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ghjkl67
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Post subject: Re: RCA 9-t-246 / t-100 First Restoration Posted: Jul Mon 09, 2012 9:30 pm |
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Joined: Dec Thu 08, 2011 4:03 am Posts: 335 Location: Orland Park, IL
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I just did the neon bulb test. I attached it to a straw and put it about 1 inch away from the plate cap on the 6BG6G tube which is indicated on the schematic as being the "Horiz. Output". The bulb did not light. There is definately a little bit of a blue tint around the surface of the tube. Does this mean it needs a new 6BG6G tube as well?
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DaveM
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Post subject: Re: RCA 9-t-246 / t-100 First Restoration Posted: Jul Mon 09, 2012 9:37 pm |
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Joined: Aug Thu 07, 2008 1:36 pm Posts: 2067 Location: Orlando
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the glass of the bulb right next the the plate cap of the horz output tube, RIGHT NEXT to it. Try it on a working set.
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ghjkl67
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Post subject: Re: RCA 9-t-246 / t-100 First Restoration Posted: Jul Tue 10, 2012 12:13 am |
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Joined: Dec Thu 08, 2011 4:03 am Posts: 335 Location: Orland Park, IL
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Here's a picture of what I did. This is my first and only tube television. The rest are all solid state. I put the neon light right up against the tube this time and it still didn't light. You have to understand that this is my first restoration, so I don't know much about testing. I thought that 1 inch was close enough for the bulb to light. It is possible that I am still doing something wrong. I am pretty sure this is the correct tube.
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Neon 002.jpg [ 72.95 KiB | Viewed 632 times ]
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DaveM
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Post subject: Re: RCA 9-t-246 / t-100 First Restoration Posted: Jul Tue 10, 2012 12:32 am |
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Joined: Aug Thu 07, 2008 1:36 pm Posts: 2067 Location: Orlando
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I see a bumblebee cap under there, don't even turn it on again until you get those out.
I cant see the kind of neon bulb you have inside that red lens cover. I will get a pic later to show you what it should look like.
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DaveM
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Post subject: Re: RCA 9-t-246 / t-100 First Restoration Posted: Jul Tue 10, 2012 12:45 am |
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Joined: Aug Thu 07, 2008 1:36 pm Posts: 2067 Location: Orlando
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you cant see it but the neon wires are wrapped around a plastic rod.
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Neon.jpg [ 39.32 KiB | Viewed 630 times ]
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DaveM
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Post subject: Re: RCA 9-t-246 / t-100 First Restoration Posted: Jul Tue 10, 2012 12:54 am |
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Joined: Aug Thu 07, 2008 1:36 pm Posts: 2067 Location: Orlando
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That tube looks like it has a lot of miles on it based on the brown getter, does not mean it has to be bad, but it may be tired, but I would think it would still works somewhat. Bad getters turn white (should be silver looking) brown is a lot of use. If the neon light does not glow you will not have HV.
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ghjkl67
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Post subject: Re: RCA 9-t-246 / t-100 First Restoration Posted: Jul Tue 10, 2012 1:03 am |
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Joined: Dec Thu 08, 2011 4:03 am Posts: 335 Location: Orland Park, IL
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It looks just like that, only a little smaller.
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Bill Cahill
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Post subject: Re: RCA 9-t-246 / t-100 First Restoration Posted: Jul Tue 10, 2012 1:06 am |
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Joined: Apr Fri 21, 2006 12:49 am Posts: 9173
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I agree with Dave. I see at least two Black Beuty paper caps in your picture. How can you expect that set to work with original paper caps stillin it?? Those caps are always shorted. Also looks like your tube plate is turning red, a symptom of no signal from the horizontall oscilator. Leave the caps in, expect more of the same. Same in damper circuit. Bill Cahill
_________________ http://www.tuberadioforum.com/ PLEASE visit Tube Radio Forums-The best forum in the World!
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DaveM
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Post subject: Re: RCA 9-t-246 / t-100 First Restoration Posted: Jul Tue 10, 2012 1:16 am |
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Joined: Aug Thu 07, 2008 1:36 pm Posts: 2067 Location: Orlando
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If its one of those rat shack one, remove it from the lens, make it easier to see. that for after you get it recapped that is.
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ghjkl67
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Post subject: Re: RCA 9-t-246 / t-100 First Restoration Posted: Jul Tue 10, 2012 2:29 am |
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Joined: Dec Thu 08, 2011 4:03 am Posts: 335 Location: Orland Park, IL
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As for getting the proper high voltage, would replacing those black color coded capacitors likely fix it or is there anything else I should know? As you probably know, I replaced all the electrolytics, but I have never heard that other capacitors such as these should be replaced before applying power.
Also, I have been trying to find a good color code chart for the capacitors, but the few that are on google don't look like the correct ones. Do you have a link to a chart? Here are the colors on four of them.
1) Brown Blue Orange White (Space) Brown Gray 2) Brown Gray Orange Gray (Space) Blue 3) Brown Gray Orange Gray (Space) Blue 4) Orange White Orange White (Space) Brown Gray
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DaveM
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Post subject: Re: RCA 9-t-246 / t-100 First Restoration Posted: Jul Tue 10, 2012 3:46 am |
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Joined: Aug Thu 07, 2008 1:36 pm Posts: 2067 Location: Orlando
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As for getting the proper high voltage, would replacing those black color coded capacitors likely fix it or is there anything else I should know?
Those need to be replaced may correct HV issue
Also, I have been trying to find a good color code chart for the capacitors, but the few that are on google don't look like the correct ones. Do you have a link to a chart? Here are the colors on four of them.
1) Brown Blue Orange White (Space) Brown Gray prob .016uf or 163 in the current mode of some caps 2) Brown Gray Orange Gray (Space) Blue .018 or 183 3) Brown Gray Orange Gray (Space) Blue .018 or 183 4) Orange White Orange White (Space) Brown Gray .039 or 393
That is if you are reading the color right, best to check the schematic. Note the two cap from the AC interlock to the chassis ground can just be removed, no real need to replace, if you do you should us Y2 rated AC caps.
the last two colors are voltage. Google this and you will find what you need to know.
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philsoldradios
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Post subject: Re: RCA 9-t-246 / t-100 First Restoration Posted: Jul Tue 10, 2012 5:14 am |
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am Posts: 3702 Location: Woodinville, WA USA
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Do yourself a favor and replace the remaining paper and "bumblebee" plastic-coated paper caps. Those really ought to replaced if you expect to use this television. Why wait? The paper caps are very, very likely to be complete junk. Although the TV may power up at this stage, it's unlikely to work well, if at all, and trying to troubleshoot it while it still contains two or three dozen failed caps may be a confusing and frustrating experience. It also seems a little pointless to me, like trying to drive a car with three flat tires and wondering why it won't go fast. This article will help identify those caps: http://antiqueradio.org/recap.htmIt also includes a chart for reading the color codes on bumblebee style caps. Don't rely solely on the color codes. Compare that to what you read in your schematic and parts list, and make sure you are replacing the old cap with the correct value. Regards, Phil Nelson Phil's Old Radios http://antiqueradio.org/index.html
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ghjkl67
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Post subject: Re: RCA 9-t-246 / t-100 First Restoration Posted: Jul Tue 10, 2012 3:56 pm |
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Joined: Dec Thu 08, 2011 4:03 am Posts: 335 Location: Orland Park, IL
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I will look at the color code and compare it to the value on the schematic, just to be sure. Didn't RCA put the two caps from the AC interlock in for a reason? If the TV can function correctly without them, then why are they there?
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DaveM
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Post subject: Re: RCA 9-t-246 / t-100 First Restoration Posted: Jul Tue 10, 2012 11:42 pm |
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Joined: Aug Thu 07, 2008 1:36 pm Posts: 2067 Location: Orlando
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RF suppression from the line. It will work fine without them, but if you want to replace you should use Y rated caps. Worst case one of the caps from the hot side of the line shorts or gets very leaky, so now the metal chassis is hot, and if you touch any metal that connects to the chassis, like a control shaft or a screw or even the cabinet (if metal) and you are grounded you will get a potentially deadly current thru you body. IIRC the Y rated caps are designed not to short. There is also X rated caps (no puns pls) that I think are use when across the line but not to the chassis.
bottom line is the set will work without them, if you get some RF noise problems then maybe try putting them on. but its not going to keep the set from working. I remember getting shocked routinely back in the day from house hold appliances, cap tech has improved a lot since these sets were made.
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philsoldradios
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Post subject: Re: RCA 9-t-246 / t-100 First Restoration Posted: Jul Wed 11, 2012 12:29 am |
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am Posts: 3702 Location: Woodinville, WA USA
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Today's homes are chock full of RF interference and caps are cheap. I would replace the line filters with the appropriate type. Justradios.com has a very nice tutorial on the topic: http://www.justradios.com/safetytips.htmlPhil Nelson
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ghjkl67
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Post subject: Re: RCA 9-t-246 / t-100 First Restoration Posted: Jul Wed 11, 2012 2:17 am |
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Joined: Dec Thu 08, 2011 4:03 am Posts: 335 Location: Orland Park, IL
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My order for capacitors is already placed, which did not include the caps from AC to ground. I am going to work on getting the high voltage and picture first and then decide if the TV needs the Y rated caps put in.
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Bill Cahill
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Post subject: Re: RCA 9-t-246 / t-100 First Restoration Posted: Jul Wed 11, 2012 6:42 am |
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Joined: Apr Fri 21, 2006 12:49 am Posts: 9173
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Even if you don't replace line caps, for safety you need to remove them. They are very leaky. Eventually, they could blow up. Bill Cahill
_________________ http://www.tuberadioforum.com/ PLEASE visit Tube Radio Forums-The best forum in the World!
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ghjkl67
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Post subject: Re: RCA 9-t-246 / t-100 First Restoration Posted: Jul Thu 12, 2012 7:37 pm |
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Joined: Dec Thu 08, 2011 4:03 am Posts: 335 Location: Orland Park, IL
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I just removed the line caps and replaced all but one high voltage cap (I ordered the wrong one). I powered it up again and did the neon bulb test. The bulb did light up. Now, I am just waiting for the IB3 tube and the last high voltage capacitor. Everything seems to be going smoothly now.
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ghjkl67
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Post subject: Re: RCA 9-t-246 / t-100 First Restoration Posted: Jul Mon 16, 2012 2:13 am |
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Joined: Dec Thu 08, 2011 4:03 am Posts: 335 Location: Orland Park, IL
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Great news. I replaced the last high voltage cap and the IB3 tube. The picture tube is now lighting up bright. There is no picture yet, but at least the high voltage is working. The new IB3 does not glow purple. In fact, it does not glow at all. I thought the IB3 was a dud at first, but then adjusting the ion trap brought the CRT to life.
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Tube 002.jpg [ 41.7 KiB | Viewed 541 times ]
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DaveM
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Post subject: Re: RCA 9-t-246 / t-100 First Restoration Posted: Jul Mon 16, 2012 2:36 am |
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Joined: Aug Thu 07, 2008 1:36 pm Posts: 2067 Location: Orlando
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Congratz, getting closer now. Slap a signal on it and lets see some programming.
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