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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Chromacolor II (chassis 25EC58) going wacko
PostPosted: Sep Sun 10, 2017 4:11 pm 
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Location: The Old Dominion 23518
22-5001s on the flyback, 3 under the chassis - you WANT the orange drop types, not the white ceramic cased ones. They are the two on the left in the photo:
Attachment:
22-5001.jpg
22-5001.jpg [ 117.15 KiB | Viewed 289 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Chromacolor II (chassis 25EC58) going wacko
PostPosted: Sep Wed 13, 2017 2:54 am 
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zeno wrote:
IIRC there are 2 on the flyback itself & 3 more UNDER the HV area
hand wired in. There are NONE on modules.
Sounds like at least a few were changed.

73 Zeno 8)
LFOD !


Sorry, I meant under the modules. Like when you open up the base and there's some rectanges where the modules are on the flip side. The caps I mentioned ARE hand wired. I'll look again to see if I can find any I missed under the HV area. If you're sure they're all under HV area then I think I already found at least one.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Chromacolor II (chassis 25EC58) going wacko
PostPosted: Sep Wed 13, 2017 3:05 am 
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(Sorry for double post)

I want to mention that I've already found the two safety caps on the top of the chassis by the FBT, and I found two 22-5001 caps on ebay. One of them, however, is black instead of orange, but is still labeled 22-5001, and is still a drop type and not a cylinder type. Is there a difference?


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Chromacolor II (chassis 25EC58) going wacko
PostPosted: Sep Wed 13, 2017 3:06 pm 
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Is it black from dirt or black from burning up? If it is just dirt that can be cleaned off and then it could be usable (though obviously a used part and somewhat suspect). If it is clean and blackened walk away I've never heard of them being made in black so if it turned that color something is wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Chromacolor II (chassis 25EC58) going wacko
PostPosted: Sep Wed 13, 2017 3:32 pm 
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jacknewton_selftest wrote:
(Sorry for double post)

I want to mention that I've already found the two safety caps on the top of the chassis by the FBT, and I found two 22-5001 caps on ebay. One of them, however, is black instead of orange, but is still labeled 22-5001, and is still a drop type and not a cylinder type. Is there a difference?


Those are the ITW Paktron types, not recommended. I have one, got it from somewhere. The problem with the ITW Paktron stuff is the caps weren't pulse rated. "something " Associates packaged up regular ITW Paktron mylar caps and sold them as 22-5001s - Note the the "Equivalent" statement.
Zenith issued a note about them being dangerous to use. It is after all a "critical component" as all would agree.
Attachment:
225001.jpg
225001.jpg [ 83.46 KiB | Viewed 244 times ]


Stick with the Orange Drops - not hard to find, as there were TONS made. BTW, genuine ones are usually less.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Chromacolor II (chassis 25EC58) going wacko
PostPosted: Sep Wed 13, 2017 3:43 pm 
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CDE seems to have dropped the .0018uf 1600V in the pulse-rated 715P series, the old standby:

http://www.mouser.com/search/refine.asp ... =156732321

:( :(

But...here's a deal I'd pop for (no affiliation, not mine, YMMV): http://www.ebay.com/itm/70-Pcs-SPRAQUE- ... SwYGFUwYJ0

Note the 10 .0018uf 1600V orange drops - 5 to use, and 5 to spare....

Use only .0018uf 1600V 715P Sprague or the 22-5001 - that value is critical. IIRC, the 5 needed are to both handle the pulse current and to provide a safety margin should one open up.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Chromacolor II (chassis 25EC58) going wacko
PostPosted: Sep Thu 21, 2017 3:21 am 
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Tim Tress wrote:
Disconnect the wire from the flyback at the tripler; the terminal on the tripler will be covered with a blob of silicone rubber. Lift the wire from the flyback out of the way, so it cannot arc to anything, and carefully turn the power on. If the breaker holds, the tripler is shorted. You'll probably hear some sizzling from the high voltage. Don't try this without checking the 22-5001 capacitors first.


So I'm trying this now because I've replaced the safety caps and it's still doing the same thing: TV turns on, flyback makes normal HV whine, dial bulb goes on, but the screen's black and the breaker trips after 10 seconds or so. I was confused by these instructions because I don't understand how I can just disconnect the wire, since from what I can tell it looks like there's no terminal to unhook the wire from; it seems to be just baked in permanently. Do I just suck in my guts and yank the wire? Is there something to unscrew? Or do I just have to cut the thick red wire and resolder it later?


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Chromacolor II (chassis 25EC58) going wacko
PostPosted: Sep Thu 21, 2017 3:30 am 
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On those chassis, make sure you are looking at the tripler, not the focus divider. The tripler is to the far right, forward by the picture tube, and is the larger of the two "boxes" - the slender one is the focus divider. The wire from the flyback at the tripler will have a small ball of silicone sealant on it if it is original - usually dark gray in color. Scrape that rubber off, and disconnect/desolder the wire, and swing it free, making sure it isn't near anything. Fire up the set - if the breaker still trips, you have other issues, and the tripler is likely okay. If the circuit breaker doesn't pop, you have a bad tripler, most likely.
Attachment:
tripler.jpg
tripler.jpg [ 113.75 KiB | Viewed 170 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Chromacolor II (chassis 25EC58) going wacko
PostPosted: Sep Thu 21, 2017 4:41 am 
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So this is going to sound kind of weird, but there is NO focus divider in that part of the chassis. Instead there's just a few holes in the metal cage, where a focus divider might go, if I'm not wrong. It also seems like it could be possible that the focus divider is built into the tripler, as the one in my set is way thicker than the one shown in that picture.

Just a reminder: Zenith chromacolor II Avanti chassis 25EC58


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Chromacolor II (chassis 25EC58) going wacko
PostPosted: Sep Thu 21, 2017 1:35 pm 
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IIRC all these had separate dividers. It may have been changed over.
May even be a production change. Divider is shown in Brians pix.
in front of tripler.

73 Zeno 8)
LFOD !


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Chromacolor II (chassis 25EC58) going wacko
PostPosted: Sep Thu 21, 2017 9:36 pm 
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The reason to change those 22-5001 caps is if they open you will fine the neck of your crt neatly sawed in two like a glass cutter did it. We used to change out those crt's back in the day. The breaker trip is caused by something else as a shorted safety cap will kick the breaker right out. Does it kick the breaker with the tripler input disconnected?


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Chromacolor II (chassis 25EC58) going wacko
PostPosted: Sep Thu 21, 2017 10:01 pm 
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Location: The Old Dominion 23518
jacknewton_selftest wrote:
So this is going to sound kind of weird, but there is NO focus divider in that part of the chassis. Instead there's just a few holes in the metal cage, where a focus divider might go, if I'm not wrong. It also seems like it could be possible that the focus divider is built into the tripler, as the one in my set is way thicker than the one shown in that picture.

Just a reminder: Zenith chromacolor II Avanti chassis 25EC58


Then, I think a) you might want to post some photos of your chassis with a photo of the fly and tripler area, and b) provide the part number on your tripler. It may be a hack job where someone tried to incorporate the focus divider in a tripler of the wrong value or type.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Chromacolor II (chassis 25EC58) going wacko
PostPosted: Sep Fri 22, 2017 12:36 am 
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Attachment:
20170921_163213-2-1.jpg
20170921_163213-2-1.jpg [ 127.12 KiB | Viewed 128 times ]


I can't make out the part number, but it looks way different from your picture. (I'd take a better pic, but it's near impossible to get a good one on my phone camera that fits the forum's specs)


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Chromacolor II (chassis 25EC58) going wacko
PostPosted: Sep Fri 22, 2017 1:40 am 
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Attachment:
20170921_173830-1.jpg
20170921_173830-1.jpg [ 124.89 KiB | Viewed 125 times ]


Here's a top view. The big gray square is the tripler, and the big space next to it is where the focus divider should be. Also, there's silicon rubber on the contact from the FBT to the tripler, so this tripler appears to be original. There's also no loose wires that should go to the focus divider in there and there seems to be more wires going into the tripler, so maybe it's some sort of OEM tripler/focus-divider combo??

(Continuity error: the FBT wire has silicon rubber around it in the first picture, but I scraped it off before I took the second picture)


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Chromacolor II (chassis 25EC58) going wacko
PostPosted: Sep Fri 22, 2017 2:29 am 
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I also just did the test with the FBT wire disconnected, and the breaker did NOT trip, so the tripler is DEAD. While testing I did notice the sound was working and static was coming through the speakers, so it's nice to know that the TV still works somewhat :D

Anyone got a replacement tripler and focus divider for this set? Or maybe the kind that I have with the two in one box? And if I end up getting the two separately, how would I wire it up?


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Chromacolor II (chassis 25EC58) going wacko
PostPosted: Sep Fri 22, 2017 1:25 pm 
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It looks 100% OEM to me.
Tripler is PROBABLY a Zenith 212-141-02 that subs to a 977-36.
Quite common & used on the upright chassis for years.

73 Zeno 8)
LFOD !


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Chromacolor II (chassis 25EC58) going wacko
PostPosted: Sep Fri 22, 2017 2:53 pm 
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If you have the sam's photofact check if the trippler crosses to a ECG equivalent. IIRC I don't have the sam's for my set since I already had the Zenith schematic for it. The ECGs show up on ebay somewhat regularly so watching for the one you need is a good move.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Chromacolor II (chassis 25EC58) going wacko
PostPosted: Sep Fri 22, 2017 3:45 pm 
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I don't have the Sam's photofact, but I did find this ebay listing. Is this a good deal?
https://m.ebay.com/itm/272849176835?_mwBanner=1


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Chromacolor II (chassis 25EC58) going wacko
PostPosted: Sep Fri 22, 2017 3:54 pm 
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Location: The Old Dominion 23518
zeno wrote:
It looks 100% OEM to me.
Tripler is PROBABLY a Zenith 212-141-02 that subs to a 977-36.
Quite common & used on the upright chassis for years.

73 Zeno 8)
LFOD !


+1

I've got one - yours for postage. it's used, but good.
Attachment:
212141.jpg
212141.jpg [ 43.33 KiB | Viewed 86 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Chromacolor II (chassis 25EC58) going wacko
PostPosted: Sep Fri 22, 2017 10:05 pm 
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Thanks! I'll talk to you about that later. How much was it used? I've heard that it's not usually good to get a used one, because they have a shorter life span.


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