I paid more than $50 for my complete set of Riders back in about 1995.

Then I paid even more to ship the fool things from somewhere in the East to Utah.

At the time I had a big old two story Victorian house with lotsa room.

I also had a large collection of Radios and TV's.

Now with less room I have scaled the collecting and the support documentation.

The stuff is still following me home however

Jim

Jim, thanks for your insights, they're pretty much along the lines that I suspected. You bring up a very interesting point, as to what happened to the sets SAMS documented. Surely there would be a few of their former employees still kicking around to tell the story. Possibly some are even lurking these forums.

You could start by contacting the company. Their website has a "Community" link listing a couple of events where Sams employees would be present and willing to meet the public:

http://samswebsite.com/en/community/event

Those events are from last year, but perhaps there are still people there willing to meet & greet, if anyone is interested.

One of my sisters-in-law is corporate librarian for a medium-sized company. They do not have a public website with an elaborate history for outsiders to read, but she is the designated historian and knows where to find all sorts of materials and company lore, as well as people who know the history going back a number of years. Who knows, maybe there are some retired Sams employees who would love to talk your ear off, if given an audience.

I worked in technical publishing for some years, and it can be a lonely business. People may love your publications and use them constantly, but it doesn't occur to them so send you a note saying, "Keep up the good work." I suppose that's true for many businesses. You hear about mistakes & defects, but happy customers are too busy using your product to tell you that they're satisfied.

Phil Nelson

I bought a set of the radio books 1 through 20 minus the 15th one for 200 bucks around 1986. I was told by the man I got them from he would try to get the 15th one from a fellow who borrowed it. The fellow was prone to drink who borrowed it and had "misplaced it". I was able to get the 15th one from A.G. Tannenbaum around 1993 for about 20 bucks. The fellow I got the Riders at the same time gave me a lot of the photofacts at the same time from when the riders I had ended to about 1960. So even then hopefully it wasn't a bad deal. I was offered more than I had in the riders in the early 90s but i don't remember how much,maybe 300 to 400.

For what it is worth, I am embarrassed to say that I had never heard of the Riders books before discovering this website. My dad did some radio and TV servicing on the side but got Photofacts. He used to complain in later years about how the Sams were often filled up with useless folders on 1 and 2 tube phonographs! One good TV or two in folders 1-2 and then rubbish after that. He didn't have any Riders then.

I have several radio volumes but only volume one of the televisions. Luckily, it has the VT-71 Motorola that I wanted.

There is a complete set for sale over in Radio Classified.

Wana bet that the good employees at Sam's always had the newest electronics at home?

Don, for what it is worth I had it the opposite of you....I started buying radioss at antique shops, and the felllow (Radiodoc3) who got me started with repairing radios kept/keeps a set of riders that were original to the shop he used to run. It was not untill much later (as I was getting into TV) that I heard of Sam's, heck I even knew of the obscure (to some) Bietmans before I ever heard of the ubiquitious Sam's folders.

Tom C.

There must have been some replacement picture tubes stockpiled somewhere since they seem to turn up now and then, at least the more common types like 10BP4s and 10AP4s, and many 21'' rectangular tubes, what are really hard to find are replacement electrostatic tubes since the sets became obsolete once the price of larger magnetic deflection sets came down. What may also account for the smaller number of CRTs was the picture tube rebuilding business, rather then buy a brand new tube for a set many opted for having the existing tube rebuilt. Apparently this was one of the reasons that National Union went broke, they invested a pile of money in equipment to manufacture CRTs for the replacement market but had the market pulled out from under them by the rebuilders.
As for television service manuals the explaination may lie in the fact that there were maybe 1/4 the number of TV manufacturers and models as there were manufacturers and models of radios back in the 1930s and 40s, and of those many produced licensed clones of either DuMont or RCA sets in the early years rather then develop their own designs. Also many of the factory manuals had both radio and TV schematics so if you had an RCA or a G.E manual you also had the TV diagrams, if you needed any more you could get a Sams Photofact or one of Beitman's annual books.
Regards
Arran

I have Volume 1 books in both the small and larger size. Maybe the larger one was a reprint? Ferd.

I have some additional Rider info that I thought I might as well post here.

In sorting out the literature from a closed parts jobber, I ran across several Rider "Tek-Files". It appears you were able to order certain portions of the Rider TV manuals based on particular brands/sets, rather than purchasing the whole manual. The content within the files merely consists of the appropriate pages from a full volume of the TV series.

This is the first I've ever heard of that. I'm surprised Rider's would go through the expense of reformatting all that data.

Looks like I have two more books on my wish list. I have the TV volumes 1 & 2 only in the small format. I'd sure like to get hold of the larger format copies. Has anyone else ever seen these in the large format? Maybe willing to sell them?

.

I have the very same thing in my keeper and for sale TV sets - Volume 1 in both small and large covered volumes. In fact, I have both TV Volume 1 and 2 in both small and large sizes.
The smalls are the same size of the various Rider's for radio volumes, although much thicker than their radio counterparts, and the large are the same size as the other large Rider's for TV volumes. Both sets of Vol 1 & 2 have original Riders enscribed hard covers, so I do not think that any are reprints.

BR,

Terry

Up to about five years ago I had the complete set of Riders TV including both the large and small formats. I sold all my references and collectible TV stuff at once. I had gotten the books from two estates the small format was free and the large was something like $5 each. FWIR there were no table radios in in the 1 & 2.

I went through both the large and small format 1 & 2 page for page. I seem to recall they were identical.

Probably would be a good idea to establish a database for all Riders publications with notations using excel or open office.

Though much fewer entries I did that for the Aerovox worker. Many ARF members are willing to PC a page from their data when Nostalgia Air fails... Knowing what is out there is helpful.

I understand that the Riders PA manual is a good read. I don't have a copy but have the index, (sigh)...

Chas

The Early Television Foundation has been archiving service info scanned by collectors here: http://www.earlytelevision.org/tv_schem ... grams.html

They also have scanned the whole Riders TV index: http://www.earlytelevision.org/riders_index.html

I have! It is detailed above in another post by me.

I had the large and small ones for sale, here on ARF, as part of a 25 volume set. After having them languish here on ARF for almost a year, I have pulled them from the classifieds and they are no longer for sale.

BR,

Terry

Too bad the ETF member (Chuck) only had an early index that went through volume 19.

.

I'd probably hesitate to pay hundreds for a complete set. Like Sams Photofacts, the value of these is only going to go down. A few years ago one could buy and sell Sams sets pretty easily on eBay. Today there aren't many buyers, since the people who were looking for them have what they need; meanwhile, more and more sets keep coming out of the woodwork. I'm about to recycle a large stash of excess Sams I have (speak up if you want them!).

I've been picking up Rider TV manuals a couple at a time for a few dollars apiece (some free). I don't expect to be able to sell them for much in the future. Relatively few people want Riders -- most seem to prefer Sams. I like the Rider volumes because they have original mfr info and usually a fair amount more detail. They don't waste pages on all the pictures that Sams has, and which I have no use for. I can always find "R57" without needing a picture and a pointer to it. Schematics, circuit descriptions, detailed parts lists, detailed alignment instructions -- those are the things I like, and are found in more detail in Rider.

I'm not sure why people would be particularly interested in a complete set. The later volumes cover years that are of less interest to collectors. Get yourself volumes 1-10 (or even just 1-5) and you've covered the sets people care about the most.

At the risk of sounding like a Grinch, I wouldn't take a complete set of Riders if you gave it to me for free. I will never see the vast majority of the TVs covered in those volumes. I have never had any problem getting a copy of Riders or Sams when needed. Perhaps other people have the room needed to warehouse those huge bound volumes, but I sure don't, particularly when 95% of the content is something I'll never use.

In a better world, perhaps I would spend hours leafing through the books, studying different schematics and marveling at the countless obscure brands. But life is short and I can think of so many other things to do!

Just my $0.02.

Phil Nelson

I am very interested in all of your input concerning this topic. It seems there are more of you that value a complete set of Rider TV manuals at a far less dollar amount than others. I believe I have a set located, I just haven't arrived at a fair value at this time.

All things considered, I'd say a complete set is worth $100-200 at this time.

That's for the TV volumes, of course. The radio volumes are getting pretty hard to sell these days, except for the very lowest (vol 1-5) and highest volumes.