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 Post subject: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Jan Sat 31, 2015 10:23 pm 
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Hello. I just received the Philco 48-1000 that my grandfather bought back in 1948. It's in kind of rough shape, but looks not too bad. I am technical, though not an electrician, and would like to attempt to make it work again. I can have the cabinet refurbished - I know a great cabinet maker. The innards, though all there, are more challenging. They are all there and look good, but there is much dirt and bugs and gunk and some rust. It has two labels in the case, for chassis numbers 125 and 122.

--> What tips do you all have as I go about restoring this?

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Unwrapped.jpg
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Rusty.jpg
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File comment: Corrosion is on the outside, insides look ok.
High Voltage cage.jpg
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File comment: Chassis came out no problem. Connections to tube, speaker were tight and clean internally.
Chassis after removal.jpg
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File comment: Underside looks ok too.
Underside of Chassis.jpg
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File comment: Part number and SN?
Serial Number.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Jan Sat 31, 2015 11:54 pm 
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Location: Detroit, MI USA
Unless you have quite a bit of experience working on tube TV's of that vintage, I would recommend that you don't even attempt doing the electronics of this one yourself. It's a set that often didn't work as well as the RCA it competed against when it was new, and 67 years later it can be problematic to make it work well today.

At the very least you are looking at replacing every one of those paper capacitors underneath, most of the resistors, and all of the electrolytic capacitors. You would also need to have someone test the picture tube before even starting on restoration of the chassis, to make 100% certain it is good enough to use. Currently no one is rebuilding CRT's, but at least the one used in this set is a common type, so you would eventually be able to purchase a good used one if needed.

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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Feb Sun 01, 2015 12:04 am 
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I agree. Too tough a set. Especially that one, given all the corrosion.

There are a gazillion caps in those Philcos. I know, as I restored a 48-1001. It's a great performing set. Probably the best resolution of the earliest post-war TVs, along with RCA and Dumont.

It was the third TV I ever restored. It was a completely corrosion-free chassis. It pretty much worked after a complete recapping. Then a couple of resistors failed in a couple of video if stages, wiping out the resolution. I was able to find and replace them. Pic came right back.

The Tuners are a bit cludgy, very difficult to get sound synched with picture. Mine is ok, after a lot of tweaking.

Very complex TV. Be scared. Be very scared...

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Feb Sun 01, 2015 12:35 am 
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Location: Bossier City, Louisiana
Run ! Run like the wind!!

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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Feb Sun 01, 2015 12:40 am 
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This thing looks like it's been out in the rain, in my opinion it's not worth anything. There is way too much damage to repair. Sorry if it comes across the wrong way but this is my honest opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Feb Sun 01, 2015 1:21 am 
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Keep this one in the attic for nostalgia, but buy a different 48-1000 in better condition if you really want a restored one. The chassis probably could be restored, provided the worst of the corrosion is just on the back side. This model is a bit more involved to restore than other sets from that era, since it was an unusually complicated and expensive design. I've restored three sets with that chassis, and they all worked well when finished.

The cabinet really looks like a total loss on that one!

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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Feb Sun 01, 2015 1:26 am 
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Location: Long Island, N.Y.
I had one years ago and my repairman told me he headed for the bar for a drink after the re-cap! :D Even after all his work the audio was never right and, not being able to enjoy it working, I just sold it. Early post-war Philco TV's are very cool looking, but unfortunately not at all what I call "players" like RCA's and Admirals.
I must agree that set will require a very tedious and difficult restoration requiring advanced skills. If it was a scarce pre-war, one may want to undertake the project, but as uncommon as the 48-1000 is, they are not rare.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Feb Sun 01, 2015 1:37 am 
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Dave Slusarczyk wrote:
Run ! Run like the wind!!


I'm already two blocks down the street from just seeing the pictures...


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Feb Sun 01, 2015 3:19 am 
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Location: Hayward, California USA
sdyer-

Welcome to the forum.

As others said, that chassis will/would be a big challenge, but only you can decide if you want to work that hard on it. Maybe your first move should be to talk to your cabinet person and see what they say about it. If your cabinetmaker says it can be restored (and at a price you can accept), well, maybe the chassis will be worth the effort to you, too.

Phil Nelson, a member here, has an excellent Web site with plenty of good advice on doing restoration work-and what you can run into as far as problems on specific projects. Here is the page you should start with:

http://antiqueradio.org/FirstStepsInRestoration.htm

You should probably find an old radio (or two) to restore first, to get some experience with the process. A TV set is five times as complex as a basic AM or AM/FM radio from the same era.

Good luck, and let us know if you do decide to proceed with the work (or if you go to find a different set of the same model instead, perhaps).

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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Feb Sun 01, 2015 5:06 am 
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Thanks everyone for the quick and thorough replies. This would purely be a nostalgia project, since it was the TV my mom had when she was little, nothing I'd plan on making money from. Also, working or not it would look cool in my house.

This was in my aunt's house in Los Angeles, in her garage, on the floor, for at least 40 years. That's where it got the water damage. Then my mom had it, after said aunt died. I'd always been interested in it, so she shipped it to me last week. Now it's in my basement.

I knew what bad shape it was in and expected a rusted-together, corroded mess inside. But I've found the corrosion is limited to the very back outside of the chassis only. The rest is simply under 50 years of grime. I vacuumed out the dirt and old dead spiders and did some quick cleaning (pics below). The components seem solid. I'll post more pics as I get it cleaned up.

As I've got nothing to lose here, I'd be curious to just try powering it up and see what happens. I've read that it's best to first do the recap/resistors, then power up with small bits of power, monitoring things, then add power as you go. I have none of that equipment. Would it blow up if I just plugged it in? Would it become irreparably damaged (assuming of course that it's not already)?

Attachment:
File comment: Washed the easy surfaces with some dishwashing liquid and water.
After brief cleaning.jpg
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File comment: The old tubes are pretty cool.
Clean tube.jpg
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Attachment:
File comment: There are many little tubes like this in metal housings. Why the housing?
Clean little tube.jpg
Clean little tube.jpg [ 39.06 KiB | Viewed 7456 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Feb Sun 01, 2015 5:17 am 
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Joined: Jan Sat 31, 2015 10:06 pm
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Thanks ChrisW6ATV for the link to the beginner's restoration article. Very informative. It answered my question about just plugging it in. Don't do it, is what it says. So I won't.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Feb Sun 01, 2015 5:44 am 
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Location: Detroit, MI USA
Definitely don't plug it in. It's very possible (and more likely with a Philco than some other sets due to its complexity) to do some very serious and expensive damage in a matter of seconds, faster than you could possibly pull the plug.

At the very minimum all of the electrolytic capacitors and a significant number of the paper ones in the most critical positions would need to be replaced before applying power.

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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Feb Sun 01, 2015 5:53 am 
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I am glad you saw the article before I posted "DON'T 'plug it in to see what happens'!". :)

The housings around some of the tubes are shields, to keep outside signals from interfering with them.

The chassis does look better after the cleaning you did. If you do decide to go ahead with the restoration work, read LOTS of Phil's articles on his Web site about different restorations he has done. The most important thing you need to have is attention to detail. All of those pink/red capacitors, the black one, all of the tan waxy ones, and all of the electrolytic ones (at least one yellow cylinder one in the top center of your under-chassis picture, as well as the multi-section can ones) need to be replaced, so you need to be sure each new one is wired to exactly where the old one was.

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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Feb Sun 01, 2015 6:33 am 
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Location: Woodinville, WA USA
I would second the advice to try restoring a simple tube radio (or two or three) before you attempt to get this TV working on your own. TVs are much more complicated than a typical radio, and this is not an easy TV compared to some others of that vintage. Just about everyone makes some rookie mistakes when learning to restore tube electronics, and it would be better to make them on a cheap radio from a flea market than on a family item that you care about.

This page lists some articles that may help you judge whether you want to try this job yourself or farm it out to an experienced tech:

http://antiqueradio.org/begin.htm

At a minimum, restoring this TV means replacing dozens of small paper capacitors and some larger electrolytic capacitors. After that is done, you'll need to diagnose and fix whatever other problems the TV might have. You can download the service manual from this page:

http://www.earlytelevision.org/tv_schem ... w_n-z.html

I encourage you to look through that manual carefully, especially the schematic diagram, which you will need to follow in order to restore this TV.

This page lists various TV restoration articles that you might also find interesting:

http://antiqueradio.org/televisions.htm

Of those TVs, the Philco 49-1240 is somewhat similar to yours. Every TV restoration is different, but skimming that article might give you a general idea what might be involved.

If you decide not to try the restoration yourself, this article has some advice about finding a restorer:

http://antiqueradio.org/howfix.htm

Regards,

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Feb Sun 01, 2015 10:50 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
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Location: Millis, MA
I'm thinking those pink caps have been replaced at some time, as on my 48-1000 almost all were the wax paper types.

You are likely going to find that not only the paper and electrolytic caps need to be replaced, but also a good number of those resistors have drifted a ways as well (the cathode bias resistors especially were as much as 100% high). Fortunately there's plenty of space to put in new electrolytics underneath without disturbing the cans on the top.

I still have issues getting the sound to work properly, it's my understanding that the sound carrier level was much higher in '48 than it is now. Maybe that's it.

Haven't powered it up in a few years, until today. Quick and dirty pic done with my iPad.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Feb Mon 02, 2015 1:02 am 
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Looks good! I think there's hope for mine.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Feb Mon 02, 2015 2:32 am 
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Location: Long Island, N.Y.
I wanted to add that I totally understand you wanting to restore your Philco for sentimental reasons. Sorry if I sounded negative about it in my previous e-mail. One thing is for sure, in all my years of collecting I've seen just about any set, in any condition, completely restored. It's just a matter of patience, skill, and time.
Good luck with it!
Joe


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Feb Mon 02, 2015 6:49 pm 
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Find another one. They are not rare. Nostalgia aside, that one would cause you no end of trouble. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Feb Mon 02, 2015 7:59 pm 
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Location: Orlando
there is nothing to be gained by plugging it in other than an EOL video for youtube.

If you are interested in the hobby, as others have said start with something simple like a 5 tube am radio.

You need a certain skill set to do the work. dexterity and proper use of tools comes with experience.
I would be concerned about termites or other insect infestations, the cabinet looks pretty far gone, but I am not a wood worker, anything can be fixed, and an argument could be made for using it as a learning experience.

The chassis on the other hand would be something I would prob do a recap on and just hang on to it if it works.
Again you need the correct tools and knowledge to make a go of it, but no harm in storing the chassis away for a future project. I have a few chassis waiting for a decent cabinet some day.

there are many ways of approaching the chassis, some start with a complete shot gun replacement of caps (all the film and electros) before even applying power. Other do a very careful base line run (no replacement at all but very careful monitoring with a slow startup) but this requires quite a bit of skill to know what to look for and how to monitor.
The advantage of this approach is if done right you can generally get some useful info on the status of major parts before committing to a full recap. this is the approach I generally take, unless I see obvious problems (like burned up parts). after a baseline run is made I will generally replace a few caps at a time and retest. I do this so I can see and evaluate the effects, its more of a learning process than just the fastest or best way IMHO.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Feb Mon 02, 2015 8:16 pm 
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Location: Chicago, IL USA
M3-SRT8 wrote:
Find another one. They are not rare. Nostalgia aside, that one would cause you no end of trouble. 8)


I guess that depends on what you mean by rare. Not as rare as a Dumont RA-101 Westminster but certainly not common. Think I've one seen a couple for sale in the past few years and hope to own one someday.


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