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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Tue 18, 2017 12:44 am 
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Why not...cheat?

Bypass the Tuner and tap into the sound and one of the video stages. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Tue 18, 2017 2:41 am 
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sdyer wrote:
Back in the day they watched it via the tuner, so I figured I would leave it that way, warts and all.


But back in the day folks didn't have digital to analog converter boxes and portable signal sources such as DVD players feeding the tuner input either. Today there's really no good argument for not blending the two technologies, because most everyone is using a modern signal source at the beginning of the signal chain regardless. For someone such as yourself it would be very educational to see and hear how the tuner and video IF stages compare to the direct connected sources, plus having the ability to inject direct signals is a very good trouble shooting tool when the set starts making snap crackle and pop noises.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Tue 18, 2017 1:20 pm 
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[quote="sdyer"]Thanks Phil. you know, I read that article of yours last year, several times, in detail. I very seriously considered doing that. Ultimately I came down on the side of keeping the set as original as possible. Back in the day they watched it via the tuner, so I figured I would leave it that way, warts and all.

this is the way i would do it. one thing that i have been thinking about is the tuner contacts. i never worked on this particular set but some of the early sets had interchangeable contact strips for the tuner. if the contacts are indeed wearing out you could try subbiing the best one from a different channel that is no longer used. it is a shame to ruin a vintage tv by modifying it from what it was originally.

any resistor that is more than 20 percent off value should be replaced. if you are very careful about lead dress you might get away with the worst ones. be prepared to do an alignment for best performance. one of the guys here might be near you and williing to help with that.

one other possibility for the snow is the macro protection on a dvd or vcr tape. also you can get interference from the color portion of the pic on some old tvs. croma dots it is called. is a picture from your converter box clearer than a pic from a dvd or vcr. if it is that means the problem is not with the tv but is a macro protection problem. i have heard the way to fix that is to run the composite output through a rf modulator then to your tv. never tried this as i have no dvd or vcr to test it.

the one good thing about injecting the signal directly into the audio video section is that will definately tell you that all the problems are in your rf section if you get a clear picture then.

i have never done this modification or seen it done nor have i studied the schematic for the mod but what the audio video output is doing is outputting the audio video signal into the tv. therefor the place to hook up the mod would be for the audio the imput side of the volume control or control grid of the audio amp tube and for the video the control grid of the video amp tube i would think.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Tue 18, 2017 2:02 pm 
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Location: Wyoming, Michigan
Cool thing about this hobby is you can do whatever you want with your own property and nobody will tell you you're fired, or pull you over and give you a ticket.

You can get a lot better picture and sound if you bypass all the RF and IF and inject video and audio. The process is pretty reversible and the TV can be returned to original fairly easily. On most sets you can even pull the unused tubes and save wear and tear on them, and use less electricity too.

You can get a LOT better picture and sound if you bypass even more of the difficult circuitry. Fixing the whole TV is really too hard, after all. Best way to do this is to wrap the TV chassis in plastic and put it in the attic and install a flat screen in the cabinet. This also saves you the trouble of buying RF modulators and DTV boxes and having to do any alignment procedures. This procedure is often completely reversible as well. The whole hobby gets a lot easier.

For me, the whole point of restoring an antique TV is to observe and show the technological history and nostalgia of a working antique TV completely working. Catching OTA via home transmitter, vintage programming from my childhood. Macro scrubber to get an authentic VBI (it matters). Maybe even weaken one transmitter down for some authentic snow (rather than DTV "blocking and buffering"). View 1949 tv as sdyer put it, "warts and all".

Whole range of solutions.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Tue 18, 2017 2:09 pm 
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Kevin Kuehn wrote:
sdyer wrote:
Back in the day they watched it via the tuner, so I figured I would leave it that way, warts and all.


...For someone such as yourself it would be very educational to see and hear how the tuner and video IF stages compare to the direct connected sources, plus having the ability to inject direct signals is a very good trouble shooting tool when the set starts making snap crackle and pop noises.


I agree with this philosophy BTW. Signal injection makes understanding the whole system a lot easier. It's a strong argument for buying a B&K Analyst.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Tue 18, 2017 5:11 pm 
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WeekendHacker wrote:
Best way to do this is to wrap the TV chassis in plastic and put it in the attic and install a flat screen in the cabinet.


LOL. When I got it I thought if I couldn't make it work I'd tape an iPad up in it.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Tue 18, 2017 6:43 pm 
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WeekendHacker wrote:

I agree with this philosophy BTW. Signal injection makes understanding the whole system a lot easier. It's a strong argument for buying a B&K Analyst.


I think a B&K Analyst is a wonderful tool for someone that wants to peruse an ongoing hobby of fixing vintage TV's, but to do component level troubleshooting requires an aptitude to learn "from-the-ground-up" how the individual circuits function and interact. I suppose it could be entirely possible for some very patient individual to lead another through a one-off alignment of their TV, but IMO it would be a very frustrating and not a very well understood experience. And to clarify, the B&K is not anywhere near being an alignment tool, but rather a substitution troubleshooting aid. My whole point of bringing up the signal injection option was to suggest an alternative that the OP already has at his disposal. In many cases the composite video injection requires nothing more than a cable with an RCA phono plug on one end and alligator clips on the other.


Last edited by Kevin Kuehn on Apr Wed 19, 2017 12:57 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Tue 18, 2017 7:04 pm 
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The analyst is not an alignment tool (the B7K 415 is, but only for later 44MHz IF sets), but it is excellent for finding bad stages and components, and troubleshooting tough issues. I always say "if you plan to do 5+ TV restos find a cheap B&K analyst" it takes a lot of headache/wasted time out of the TV repair equation.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Tue 18, 2017 8:02 pm 
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Location: Wyoming, Michigan
Most people who take on a hobby with passion, be it Lionel trains or R/C planes or collecting Barbie dolls tend to give their passion 20 or 40 years to life. No reason any of us should do less, and learning how a B&K Analyst works isn't rocket science. With patience, what Electronic Memory said applies well.

I don't recall calling it an alignment tool, but if you use it with a certain cleverness you'd be surprised how close you can get.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Tue 18, 2017 8:38 pm 
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WeekendHacker wrote:

I don't recall calling it an alignment tool, but if you use it with a certain cleverness you'd be surprised how close you can get.


No I wasn't implying you called it an alignment tool. I was simply clarifying for others reading along, so they don't all rush out and buy something only to realize it's not a magical alignment box.

Also I agree it's not rocket science using some of this test gear, but then neither is setting up and looking at an AC waveform on an oscilloscope. I can't count how many long time radio/TV hobbyists I've run across that fail to grasp how those things work. I can only assume they have no fundamental understanding of amplitude versus time/frequency relationship of the AC waveform. Today most kids don't even understand where the mysterious pie number they encounter in math comes from, and no more field trips to the local power plant.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Sat 29, 2017 11:48 pm 
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I need to repaint the high voltage cage. Can I use regular rustoleum silver paint? Or is there some special paint it needs? Should I not repaint it?


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Rusty Blotchy.jpg
Rusty Blotchy.jpg [ 226.96 KiB | Viewed 1405 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Sun 30, 2017 12:45 am 
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Location: Wyoming, Michigan
Wuff.

It looks like a perfectly-flat sheet of steel with a couple of holes cut out. This might be a case for just fabricating a new one.

But if you want to save it, go to your nearest swimming-pool-supply store and buy a gallon of muriatic acid (about 7 dollars). Find a shallow plastic pan and go outdoors and put the rusty panel in it. Hold your breath and pour the acid over it and get away from the fumes. Let it soak for an hour or so. All rust will dissolve into solution. Might not be much left of the panel though. Looks pretty rusted out. Using garden hose from a distance fill and flush the pan with fresh water for 3 or 4 minutes. The rusty acid solution is not hazardous once diluted and not toxic at all and probably won't even kill the grass. Once the panel is dry, paint it with rust-oleum self-etching primer and let dry. At that point you'll have to decide if the surface is worth saving. It'll be rough. There are automotive bodyworking products that could fill in the dimples or holes and smooth it off.

Seems like more work than just having a fresh piece of metal cut. Maybe splurge and do one out of brushed stainless.

My 2 cents.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Sun 30, 2017 1:46 am 
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You could also try Naval Jelly (less toxic) to remove the rust, after first scraping off the loose stuff. Then sand it down, prime, and paint. An HV cage doesn't get extremely hot, so you don't need anything exotic.

Phil Nelson


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Sun 30, 2017 3:45 am 
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Not to pick nits and I'm a little tired of arguing but naval jelly is more toxic. Muriatic acid is the same stuff that's in all our stomachs, hydrochloric acid. Muriatic is just a specific concentration. Naval jelly is phosphoric acid which contains phosphates that are environmental hazards (banned in the 70s in household detergents). You really don't want to pour the stuff down the public drains or on your lawn. Diluted muriatic as i described is less hazardous to the environment than throwing up stomach acid after a bad hot dog.

The hydrochloric acid eventually reduces to table salt and water, the contents of clean ocean water. Phosphoric acid does not. Both acids reduce rust to a solution that washes off. Neither acid attacks elemental iron. So the dipped metal comes out clean. Sanding anything after the dip is just adding more scratches to an already rough start.

Or you could fabricate a new one out of stainless...


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: May Mon 01, 2017 1:54 pm 
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Or, you could just remove the Rust with an orbital sander and some 40 grit paper.

Top that...lol. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: May Mon 01, 2017 5:28 pm 
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M3-SRT8 wrote:
Or, you could just remove the Rust with an orbital sander and some 40 grit paper.

Top that...lol. 8)

I tend to chuck a wire brush into my drill grind the majority of the rust off, hit the piece with duplicolor rust fix, (may need filler and sanding) paint and install...


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: May Mon 01, 2017 5:57 pm 
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It is a shame that that nice tube layout label is so badly damaged. It looks like there is no way to save any of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: May Mon 01, 2017 7:13 pm 
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Tom - I may try to save what's left by putting packing tape over what's there and lifting it off. I'm also looking for a proper copy online, that I can print and glue on.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: May Mon 01, 2017 7:57 pm 
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Here's the current state of the cabinet restoration. The new veneer is all on and it's ready for staining, painting and finishing. See the cabinet restoration saga at http://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=307372.


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File comment: My cabinet, with all wood fixed and replaced, and the reference pic.
Clad.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: May Tue 02, 2017 1:56 am 
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Your effort on this restoration deserves an applause. Looks great.


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