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 Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV
PostPosted: Dec Sun 03, 2017 1:12 pm 
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That Chassis looks so nice ... why would one want to hide it in a wood box :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV
PostPosted: Dec Sun 03, 2017 2:44 pm 
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Thanks guys for the nice comments.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV
PostPosted: Dec Sun 03, 2017 2:52 pm 
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I have had a bit of a set back. I was just starting to display a test pattern to adjust the picture when I heard a HV squeal coming from the HV cage. After some trouble shooting, it looks like the FB is the source. I'm going to have to replace the FB. I'm checking on the availability of one locally. ETF lists 2, 1 from 2 different manufacturers. The FB part numbers are:

Zenith = S17233
Thoradson = FLY-52
Merit = HVO-53
Stancor = A-8267
Triad = D-45
Ram = X070
???? = HO-217

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV
PostPosted: Dec Sun 03, 2017 7:00 pm 
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You can get a squeal if the horizontal oscillator is off of the correct frequency. Did the screen go completely dark? If not completely dark, was the test pattern synced?

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV
PostPosted: Dec Mon 04, 2017 6:55 am 
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Yes, the noise came from the FB but that doesn't mean it's the cause.

Heat, smoke, smouldering FB, then yes.

I'm not a fan of water for cleaning old electronics. Too much hygroscopic insulation, high voltages and high impedances. Asking for trouble, even with a long bakeout afterwards.
Compressed air, a paintbrush and alcohol (for the chassis!) is my preference.

Although I did have a 1930s radio chassis recently where the alcohol removed all the paint! The factory where they sprayed those chassis must have been an interesting place to work!!

Hope it's the horizontal oscillator.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV
PostPosted: Dec Tue 05, 2017 5:05 am 
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Tom Schulz wrote:
You can get a squeal if the horizontal oscillator is off of the correct frequency. Did the screen go completely dark? If not completely dark, was the test pattern synced?

Tom,
The screen didn't do anything. It looks normal. Not sure what you mean by synced. But it does display a very good picture. All is normal except the noise from the FB.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV
PostPosted: Dec Tue 05, 2017 5:06 am 
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irob2345 wrote:
Yes, the noise came from the FB but that doesn't mean it's the cause.

Heat, smoke, smouldering FB, then yes.

I'm not a fan of water for cleaning old electronics. Too much hygroscopic insulation, high voltages and high impedances. Asking for trouble, even with a long bakeout afterwards.
Compressed air, a paintbrush and alcohol (for the chassis!) is my preference.

Although I did have a 1930s radio chassis recently where the alcohol removed all the paint! The factory where they sprayed those chassis must have been an interesting place to work!!

Hope it's the horizontal oscillator.

No water. Alcohol then baked for several hours before and during re-coating.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV
PostPosted: Dec Tue 05, 2017 5:28 am 
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The H freq. is 15, 860 cps.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV
PostPosted: Dec Tue 05, 2017 6:14 am 
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Crist Rigotti wrote:
Tom,
The screen didn't do anything. It looks normal. Not sure what you mean by synced. But it does display a very good picture. All is normal except the noise from the FB.

Are there any screws that might be loose? If there were something wrong with the windings, I would expect the high voltage to drop and the picture to be affected. Or as a minimum I would expect the flyback to overheat.

Not synced is what you get when the horizontal hold is mis-adjusted or can not be adjusted to get a normal picture.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV
PostPosted: Dec Tue 05, 2017 7:55 am 
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Tom Schulz wrote:
Crist Rigotti wrote:
Tom,
The screen didn't do anything. It looks normal. Not sure what you mean by synced. But it does display a very good picture. All is normal except the noise from the FB.

Are there any screws that might be loose? If there were something wrong with the windings, I would expect the high voltage to drop and the picture to be affected. Or as a minimum I would expect the flyback to overheat.

Not synced is what you get when the horizontal hold is mis-adjusted or can not be adjusted to get a normal picture.


No screws loose. Coil is tight. Everything is tight.
After running the TV for several hours tonight, I felt the coil and it was barely above room temperature and the core was warm but not hot. I could grab it with my hand and hold it for a long time with no problem.
The squeal seems to have diminished some. Barely audible now. I'll check it in the morning and see what happens.

OK on the not synced question. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV
PostPosted: Dec Tue 05, 2017 8:07 am 
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If the pic is normal but you have a whistle (usually at half the line frequency) it could be from the FB's ferrite core. A crack or chip in the ferrite will do this.
If the noise is core related you will be able to affect it by pressing on the core with the set running, using a plastic rod or similar well-insulated probe.
If probing to core affects the noise, examine the core carefully and see if there is a crack or chip. If so, coat the area with contact adhesive and leave it an hour or more to cure.
If that's not it. you can try the core squeeze manouver.
With the set running, if you can do it safely, tighten the screws that hold the core together. Go gently on this, no more than is needed, it may affect the HV hence the picture size by changing the core's air gap.
There is another possibility. Is there a large HV ceramic capacitor? They can "sing" because of the piezoelectric effect. You may need to replace it. In Australia, early Astor TVs suffered from this problem, many FBs were replaced without fixing the whistle!
Later Philips FBs used epoxy with tiny glass beads mixed in to set the core air gap. Great idea, but sometimes this would crack, the result was a very loud whistle that you couldn't fix, you had to change out the FB.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 5:17 am 
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Location: Waxahachie Texas
The noise has almost gone away. I'm keeping my ear on it though.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 5:21 am 
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Location: Waxahachie Texas
The last few days have been spent on some details.

I polished up the E-Cap cans and installed them.

I then repaired the broken shaft on the fine tuning mechanism. I found some 1/4 inch phenolic rod on eBay and bought several 6 inch pieces. The guy was from Fort Worth and they arrived the next day.

After I traced out the positions of everything I tapered the one end using my disc sander at first then my drill press to true it up. I then cut it to length and cut the groove for the keeper. To do this I used my battery drill clamped to the bench. Then turned it on and cut the groove with a hacksaw blade. Took all of 3 minutes. After cleaning up the pieces I pressed them into position. I installed the shaft and the keeper. Then restrung the dial cord.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 5:23 am 
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I cleaned up my good picture tube I got from the ETF in October. It had some glue from duct tape in several places on the metal cone. I cleaned off the gunk, removed the labels (there were 2 of them. 1 was a Caution label and the other was also a Caution label with the CRT serial number on it), lightly sanded and cleaned off the cone. I then masked off the glass portion to the tube. One more cleaning with acetone and then 2 coats of Rust-Oleum Black BBQ paint. When dry then 2 coats of Satin Clear Enamel. This CRT looks good!

I then recreated the labels using my CAD program. Saved them as pdf's and a trip to the copy place gave me some nice red labels on light card stock. After I trimmed them to size, I used some spray contact glue and fixed them into place. Not exact duplicates but very close.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 5:28 am 
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Location: Waxahachie Texas
I need to make up and add the chassis labels tomorrow.

Here are some pics of the chassis sans labels.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 5:30 am 
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Some more pics,


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 5:33 am 
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A very generous member of this another forum gave me a B&K 415 and a 1077B along with most of the cables. I wanted to use the 415 to align this set and after making up the missing cable and converting the mic connectors to BNC, I found out that the 415 doesn't work on the "sweep" function. So over the next week I'll dive into that to see if I can get it going. I'll make a post in the Test Equipment section when that happens.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 3:38 pm 
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Can I just say WOW You have outdone yourself on this set. It looks like it has time traveled.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 4:39 pm 
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Crist Rigotti wrote:
A very generous member of this another forum gave me a B&K 415 and a 1077B along with most of the cables. I wanted to use the 415 to align this set and after making up the missing cable and converting the mic connectors to BNC, I found out that the 415 doesn't work on the "sweep" function. So over the next week I'll dive into that to see if I can get it going. I'll make a post in the Test Equipment section when that happens.


Ignore my earlier comment. I was quite surprised to see a set this early uses a 44 MHz IF. Good luck with the 415


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV
PostPosted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 5:28 pm 
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bandersen wrote:
Crist Rigotti wrote:
A very generous member of this another forum gave me a B&K 415 and a 1077B along with most of the cables. I wanted to use the 415 to align this set and after making up the missing cable and converting the mic connectors to BNC, I found out that the 415 doesn't work on the "sweep" function. So over the next week I'll dive into that to see if I can get it going. I'll make a post in the Test Equipment section when that happens.


Ignore my earlier comment. I was quite surprised to see a set this early uses a 44 MHz IF. Good luck with the 415


Yeah, I think I'm going to need it! Thanks.

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