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 Post subject: Admiral 24C16 question
PostPosted: Aug Sun 13, 2017 2:35 am 
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Location: ON, Canada
I had some time to look at my newly acquired Admiral console, and - surprise! - it's NOT a 30C15. Actually, it's 24C16, similar, but not the same.
$10 for SAMS photofact down the drain, ordered new one...

First thing that jumped at me - looks like someone has carefully removed the power cord... Question I have - what kind of connector is supposed to go here? Is it one of those "cheater cords", similar to this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/50s-60s-Vintage ... 0005.m1851

Or was there also a socket of some sort? Any other/better alternatives available?


Attachments:
Power_Connector.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Admiral 24C16 question
PostPosted: Aug Sun 13, 2017 3:18 am 
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Posts: 3041
Location: Lincoln City, OR
Greetings to Fennec and the Forum:

The cord in the eBay link you provided is a polarized cord. The TV set you have uses a non-polarized cord with "ears" that are riveted to the set back (where the holes are in your photo). The reason is that the set will be disconnected from the AC line when the back is removed for safety reasons. You could procure two cords, one to rivet to the back to restore the set's originality and one to use as a "cheater" cord when working on the set. Or just obtain one and don't fasten it to the set back.

Cords can be had from Mark Oppat (see below) who is a member of the Forum or from Surplus Sales of Nebraska (look them up on line).

Quote:
I have all these cords and many more. Just need for you to email your want lists. I have never had the time to put all my stuff on my site. <snip>
Mark Oppat
***** at comcast.net


Regards,

_________________
Jim T.
KB6GM


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 Post subject: Re: Admiral 24C16 question
PostPosted: Aug Sun 13, 2017 3:31 am 
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Joined: Sep Fri 07, 2007 2:27 am
Posts: 5379
Location: Grand Chute, Wisconsin
Jthorusen wrote:
The cord in the eBay link you provided is a polarized cord.


No, it isn't. Look again at the pictures and/or read the description.

.


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 Post subject: Re: Admiral 24C16 question
PostPosted: Aug Sun 13, 2017 4:04 am 
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Greetings to wiscojim and the Forum:

That's what I get for being in a hurry. The first photo that appears when one clicks that link IS of a polarized cord. However, the first photo is not what is being offered for sale.

Regards,

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Jim T.
KB6GM


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 Post subject: Re: Admiral 24C16 question
PostPosted: Aug Sun 13, 2017 4:59 am 
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Joined: Sep Fri 07, 2007 2:27 am
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Location: Grand Chute, Wisconsin
Jthorusen wrote:
That's what I get for being in a hurry. The first photo that appears when one clicks that link IS of a polarized cord. However, the first photo is not what is being offered for sale.
ALL of the photos in the ebay listing are of the exact same NON-polarized interlock cord. Check the coiling of the cord itself, and you will see.

.


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 Post subject: Re: Admiral 24C16 question
PostPosted: Aug Sun 13, 2017 5:14 am 
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Greetings to wiscojim and the Forum:

I don't know about your machine, but this is what I see when I click the link:

Attachment:
Cheater Cord ViewR.jpg
Cheater Cord ViewR.jpg [ 60.9 KiB | Viewed 2766 times ]


The first photo is of a polarized power cord.

Regards,

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Jim T.
KB6GM


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 Post subject: Re: Admiral 24C16 question
PostPosted: Aug Sun 13, 2017 5:27 am 
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Joined: Sep Fri 07, 2007 2:27 am
Posts: 5379
Location: Grand Chute, Wisconsin
Jthorusen wrote:
I don't know about your machine, but this is what I see when I click the link:


The link provided was to a listing for a non-polarized cord, not for a secondary listing referenced in your browser's capture.

The link was clearly intended to go to a 50s-60s Vintage Cheater Cord (non-polorized) Radio/TV, NOS. and is what the poster was asking about.

This is what my screen shows:
Attachment:
rd.jpg
rd.jpg [ 44.56 KiB | Viewed 2766 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Admiral 24C16 question
PostPosted: Aug Mon 14, 2017 2:35 pm 
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Location: Pewaukee, WI
One quick and cheap option for a cord is to go to an ACE hardware and pick up one of their hot pot cords (which also fits TV interlocks). I've got a few of those cords that I use for service work, and I'll sometimes use them as a permanent cord for a set if the back mounts are damaged/missing, or the original cord was a clip retainer cord (which I'm usually out of stock of).


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 Post subject: Re: Admiral 24C16 question
PostPosted: Aug Mon 14, 2017 4:16 pm 
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Posts: 2070
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Fennec wrote:
I had some time to look at my newly acquired Admiral console, and - surprise! - it's NOT a 30C15. Actually, it's 24C16, similar, but not the same.
$10 for SAMS photofact down the drain, ordered new one...



You can download service into for free for the Early Television Museum website.

Same: http://www.earlytelevision.org/pdf/Admi ... ams_77.pdf

Riders: http://www.earlytelevision.org/pdf/admi ... er_tv4.pdf

Admiral Factory service supplement: http://www.earlytelevision.org/pdf/admi ... p_20a1.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Admiral 24C16 question
PostPosted: Aug Mon 14, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Joined: Jun Wed 05, 2013 1:48 am
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Location: ON, Canada
Thank you all for the input so far. Understanding that originally the power cord was NOT polarized, I am wondering what and if there is a downside to using a more modern polarized cord?

I would guess that inserting an old plug into an outlet would have yielded about 50/50 chance of making the set hot side switchable, or cold side switchable... So, in theory, using a polarized plug with hot side leading to the volume control pot/on-off switch should not have any adverse effect on the performance of the set, and will make it somewhat safer at the same time... Or am I missing something important here?


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 Post subject: Re: Admiral 24C16 question
PostPosted: Aug Mon 14, 2017 6:11 pm 
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Joined: Apr Mon 18, 2011 3:52 pm
Posts: 43
Location: United States
Fennec-

A Polarized cord, on the end opposite the plug, will have one small hole and one larger hole (this is how they make sure that it's connected properly to a polarized device, every time). The small hole fits your pins OK but the larger hole is bigger than the pins on your TV, so it won't make reliable contact with them.


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 Post subject: Re: Admiral 24C16 question
PostPosted: Aug Mon 14, 2017 7:22 pm 
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Joined: Jul Wed 08, 2009 12:17 am
Posts: 913
Location: Wyoming, Michigan
Fennec wrote:
... Or am I missing something important here?


Your set is not a hot chassis. The Sams schematic for your multi-chassis combo console is complicated by multiple jacks and plugs, but I believe is electrically the same as this schematic of the TV-only version:

Attachment:
xformer-typical.png
xformer-typical.png [ 74.81 KiB | Viewed 2691 times ]


If the top AC plug blade is hot, the left switch terminal is hot. If the bottom blade is hot, the right switch terminal is 99.9998% still hot (The primary transformer winding is very low impedance and passes nearly the same current). With the switch open, neither hot terminal presents more of a danger than the other. With the switch closed, neither terminal differs from the other.

The 270K resistor means if the top blade is hot (and the switch is closed), the chassis is technically somewhat hot, but current-limited by 270,000 ohms into complete safety. If the bottom blade is hot, the chassis is current-limited to 270,000 + 10 or 20 ohms that the transformer primary adds, completely insignificant in comparison, into the same complete safety. The chassis is equally safe in both cases, the power switch is equally "dangerous" regardless if it's 1/2 hot directly or 1/2 hot indirectly through the few ohms of transformer winding. If the resistor fails, the chassis is no longer in circuit, so is altogether safe.

I guess if the resistor were to fail shorted, the chassis could be more dangerous in the case of the bottom blade being hot and the switch open. But 270K resistors fail open (in every known case) when they fail at all. Not a practical risk.

Makes no real difference other than perhaps a theoretical .0002% that's not significant. Designers knew this and therefore no cord polarization was necessary. No modification is necessary, unless psychologically.


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 Post subject: Re: Admiral 24C16 question
PostPosted: Aug Tue 22, 2017 7:04 pm 
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OK, perfect, thank you everyone. I will just get a non-polarized "cheater" cord (from eBay or Surplus Sales of Nebraska) with "tabs", and I should be all set. The one on eBay looks a bit "cleaner" as it doesn't seem to have rubber edge flashing from the molding process... Cosmetics, but still... :)


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 Post subject: Re: Admiral 24C16 question
PostPosted: Dec Sun 10, 2017 8:49 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 5280
Location: 253 Blanche St. Plymouth, MI USA
Fennec wrote:
OK, perfect, thank you everyone. I will just get a non-polarized "cheater" cord (from eBay or Surplus Sales of Nebraska) with "tabs", and I should be all set. The one on eBay looks a bit "cleaner" as it doesn't seem to have rubber edge flashing from the molding process... Cosmetics, but still... :)


I still have a few of both the non polarized or polarized cheater cords with either the "ears" mounting or the "clip" mounting. The Surplus of Nebraska prices are way high, BTW.
Mark Oppat
*****


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