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 Post subject: Kris 23+ not receiving on some channels ?
PostPosted: Dec Sat 24, 2016 3:25 am 
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Location: Bethpage, NY
This may be an easy one or weird one. Seems channels 1,2,3,4,9,10,11,12 do not receive or transmit, all others are fine. It looks like there is a set of crystals in it, maybe some are dead? If anyone has a schematic ( I think they are in Sams CB book 45) or any ideas why these channels are dead, would appreciate the help.


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 Post subject: Re: Kris 23+ not receiving on some channels ?
PostPosted: Dec Sat 24, 2016 6:22 am 
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Joined: Jul Tue 21, 2009 1:38 pm
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Location: SW WA state
Hi Snowlion,

I looked up the Kris 23+: Couldn't easily find a schematic.
Nice looking radio! Will keep an eye out for one.
From having trouble shot other radios, you may be correct about the crystals: Very few radios have 23 crystals for 23 channels (worked on a Browning Mark III recently that did!), as crystals were and are comparatively expensive.
What they generally did, was take a number of crystals, and work it so you might have two different sets of general frequencies, and those are alternately switched and mixed to give you 23 channels.
So, you might have 12 crystals instead of 23.
If one or more crystals go bad, you might lose a group of three or four channels together, or possibly one channel every so many channels, depending on which one or ones it is.
First thing I would do is clean old switches with a no-residue contact cleaner (maybe flush out all the pots and switches while you're at it!).
Only after that would I check crystals.
Fortunately, I have tow genuine lab grade crystal testers that cover me from about 800 k/c to 110 M/c.
Barring that, you might be able to put a frequency counter lead next to the crystals, and see which ones actually oscillate.
The crystals will usually be stamped with the frequencies they actually operate on.
Yes, crystals can simply go bad over time.
Best of Luck!

-Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Kris 23+ not receiving on some channels ?
PostPosted: Dec Sun 25, 2016 4:27 am 
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Thanks Tom. I ordered Sams CB book #45, it has the schematic. Strange how crystals go bad, I had a Tram Titan with just channel 1 not working, it was the crystal. Will need to wait for the book to go further


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 Post subject: Re: Kris 23+ not receiving on some channels ?
PostPosted: Dec Sun 25, 2016 6:45 am 
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Joined: Jul Tue 21, 2009 1:38 pm
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Location: SW WA state
OK on the book... Barring a dirty switch, that's the best bet.
I've taken apart crystals, and some aren't put together very well: They may have spring or similar type contacts, which can possibly get tarnished, or simply fall apart.
Then the crystals can age, and drift off...
I'm beginning to think that nothing is immune from failure over time.
I'll check to see if I have book# 45: I have a good sized pile of the first ones... Quite useful, if you like the tube type stuff like me.
All the best to you, you'll figure it out eventually.
Merry Christmas, and a Happy, Healthy, and Prosperous New Year!

-Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Kris 23+ not receiving on some channels ?
PostPosted: Dec Sun 25, 2016 8:42 pm 
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Thank you Tom, trouble will be locating any crystals. Ken's electronics used to have many, but I have not heard back on any requests for crystals. At least maybe you can list out the frequencies and I start searching on eBay. Merry Christmas to you and your family!


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 Post subject: Re: Kris 23+ not receiving on some channels ?
PostPosted: Dec Sun 25, 2016 11:34 pm 
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Joined: Jul Tue 21, 2009 1:38 pm
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Location: SW WA state
Thank you for the best wishes!
And I know what you mean about crystals: Don't be surprised if you have to look for them for a while...
One of my favorite radios is the Sonar FS-23 (I have three!): One was a freebie from an estate I was selling, one cost me $5 at a Hamfest... The problem I had with one was that a few crystals were bad, so I picked up a "hopeless case" unit off Ebay for $35, and it turned out to be in better shape than one of my beaters!
So, I have three that work, still looking for the odd crystals.
Sonar actually made a lot of marine and commercial stuff, so their designs were much better than average, but the cost of being better was unique multiplication schemes in their crystals..
Surplus Sales of Nebraska has a bunch of oddball stuff, and if you search Ebay, you may be able to find something on the same frequency that works.
Even if it's not the same package style, as long as you can fit or solder it ni, you should be OK.
If you are really fortunate, the mixing scheme in your radio will be the same as another radio or two, so you may be able to find a replacement set fairly easily.

-Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Kris 23+ not receiving on some channels ?
PostPosted: Dec Mon 26, 2016 2:29 am 
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I have Sams #45. It looks like 23.440 and 23.540 are the 2 crystals to check or replace.


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 Post subject: Re: Kris 23+ not receiving on some channels ?
PostPosted: Dec Mon 26, 2016 4:06 pm 
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Thanks do you know which position they are in in the crystal pc board? I see numbering from one to 12 with 11 and 12 empty


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 Post subject: Re: Kris 23+ not receiving on some channels ?
PostPosted: Dec Mon 26, 2016 10:14 pm 
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Joined: Jul Tue 21, 2009 1:38 pm
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Location: SW WA state
Hmm... I bet 11 and 12 are it!


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 Post subject: Re: Kris 23+ not receiving on some channels ?
PostPosted: Dec Tue 27, 2016 3:25 am 
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The schematic lists them as M12 and M8. In the pic of the chassis there is a factory shrink wrap over the crystals so I couldn't tell you what position. But if memory serves me correctly those crystals should have their frequencies stamped on them. Might be hard to see since they are squished together.


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 Post subject: Re: Kris 23+ not receiving on some channels ?
PostPosted: Jan Tue 10, 2017 2:38 pm 
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The 23.440 and 23.540 crystals were defective; was able to desolder them and plug into my B&K CB checker. no oscillation at all. Got replacements from the pay site, and soldered them in. Channels are back now, just a tad off freq; will need to realign it I assume. Also replaced the filter caps as well since the iron was hot! :)


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 Post subject: Re: Kris 23+ not receiving on some channels ?
PostPosted: Jan Tue 10, 2017 3:33 pm 
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Joined: Jul Tue 21, 2009 1:38 pm
Posts: 656
Location: SW WA state
Glad to hear that you got it going OK!
Here is the deal on the frequency: If the transmitter itself is off, you may be SOL: The only thing that affects frequency there is the crystals, so if a trimmer is provided, you can hopefully dial them in.
More than likely, you don't have any leeway.
If the frequency on a crystal is high, you may be able to pad it with a small 5-30 ish pF trimmer.
If the frequency is too low on an individual crystal, you're SOL on that one.
It's always fun with rigs that have multiple crystals, as one may drift this way, the other that, and they can self correct on a few channels that way.


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 Post subject: Re: Kris 23+ not receiving on some channels ?
PostPosted: Jan Tue 10, 2017 7:22 pm 
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Joined: Apr Thu 12, 2007 3:24 am
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Location: Milwaukee,WI
The signal from the 23mhz crystals gets mixed with the other bank of 14mhz crystals. Then that mix gets mixed with another 11.275 crystal oscillator which does have the trimmer cap to adjust. Adjust that one so you get the most channels on or close to frequency or adjust it for best on the channel/s you use most.


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