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 Post subject: What would YOU do with this mess?
PostPosted: Jun Mon 04, 2012 9:15 pm 
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The patient is a very cute Zenith 5-R-337 small chairside, in excellent condition. But someone has been there before me! This is one of the worst examples of a recap I have seen! All orange drops (yuck) mostly just tacked soldered to the clipped leads of the previous components. Fortunately, all of the original resistors look to be there.
Image
The radio actually works. But I cannot live with this mess! I have all of the original Zenith dud paper capacitors needed to reverse the "restoration". But I have no clue what the original filter caps looked like - they appear to be individual tubulars just looking at the parts list. And of course, I have no clue how the original capacitors were placed and connected. I would have to find an unrestored (or largely original) photo of a chassis 5528! And I have not almost NO luck finding original dud filter capacitors, even from the good folks on the classified forum.

Other changes made: the grille cloth and cardboard backer have been replaced. The line cord has been replaced (new vinyl with an old type acorn plug). And the (I assume) asbestos insulator inside the cabinet has been replaced by a piece of aluminum foil!

I'm thinking that maybe the best thing to do is to just flip it and not worry about it!

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 Post subject: Re: What would YOU do with this mess?
PostPosted: Jun Mon 04, 2012 9:31 pm 
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Flip it. It works and that , more than the way it got done, is important to some folks.

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 Post subject: Re: What would YOU do with this mess?
PostPosted: Jun Mon 04, 2012 9:51 pm 
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Some hook tie the new components rather then applying heat and possibly damaging fragile tube socket tabs.


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 Post subject: Re: What would YOU do with this mess?
PostPosted: Jun Mon 04, 2012 9:53 pm 
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If that is one of the worst examples, you need to get out more. At least it appears they used the correct values of caps, and they must have actually used a soldering iron.

That would be an average 'restoration' that I have seen.


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 Post subject: Re: What would YOU do with this mess?
PostPosted: Jun Mon 04, 2012 10:06 pm 
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Well I'm not a Zenith lover (nor am I a Zenith hater) but I am sure that with a bit of time and research you'll be able to get a picture from someone. If that is a desirable radio I just don't see that it is such a big problem; we've all seen a lot worst. This may not be neatly done but it is not a hack job in my eyes but maybe I'm just blind.

Some good information on your web page!

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Last edited by Bruce Hagen on Jun Tue 05, 2012 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What would YOU do with this mess?
PostPosted: Jun Mon 04, 2012 10:07 pm 
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And the orange drops will be considerably more reliable than the Chinese yellow tubular jobs.

-David


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 Post subject: Re: What would YOU do with this mess?
PostPosted: Jun Mon 04, 2012 10:15 pm 
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Looks OK to me, too. At least somebody replaced all the caps. I've seen radios where they missed a few. My first restoration was a similar Zenith, and I used ceramic discs all over it. I didn't know better, and it works perfectly. :D


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 Post subject: Re: What would YOU do with this mess?
PostPosted: Jun Mon 04, 2012 10:19 pm 
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Dave, I'm not exactly sure why this crooked picture frame of a radio is so offensive to you. :o
Like others have said, that restoration is not bad at ALL. You had better be prepared for much, much worse. :lol:

It will get to the point where the worst 'restorations' you have seen will include things that have exploded, things that could easily short out and things that would have blown up violently if you plugged it in. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Save yourself some heartache and quit while you're ahead. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: What would YOU do with this mess?
PostPosted: Jun Mon 04, 2012 10:33 pm 
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Dave, Doesn't look like a bad job to restore it back to the way it should be. I am working on a GE109 now, the person before me replaced some components and miswired them, I repaired that mess, further checks found that 3-4 wires were miswired, must have came loose when he was installing the components, and he wired them to the most convenient point. Its still not working and I am getting frustrated. I work on other radios in between, and go back to the GE after a couple martinis.

Frank


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 Post subject: Re: What would YOU do with this mess?
PostPosted: Jun Mon 04, 2012 11:22 pm 
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What is wrong with Orange Drops? If the radio works and the parts are in the right places putting different caps won't change anything. Are yellow caps not "Yucky"? Since nobody sees them in normal operation why does the color matter? Just curious about the reasons Orange Drops are Yucky, they are very good caps.


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 Post subject: Re: What would YOU do with this mess?
PostPosted: Jun Mon 04, 2012 11:39 pm 
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It's a radio you want, it's in great shape, it's been recapped with quality caps, it works great, and you're considering unloading it because you don't like the way it looks underneath a chassis that no one will see? That makes no sense.

Larry

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 Post subject: Re: What would YOU do with this mess?
PostPosted: Jun Mon 04, 2012 11:56 pm 
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After having to replace a wafer socket one time because I was trying to disconnect everything connected to the terminal so I could replace the wax capacitor, and it failed, I'm not above tacking new capacitors to the old wires. I always bend them so I can basically crimp the wires together before soldering.

I dont fix to flip. My restorations have been for friends that actually use the radios. I got to hear one of my rebuilds today. It's sitting on top of a 1958 Fridgidaire refrigerator, and was playing when I stopped by to visit its owner.


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 Post subject: Re: What would YOU do with this mess?
PostPosted: Jun Mon 04, 2012 11:58 pm 
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he said he has all the old dud paper capacitors to replace the new updated ones in it with, I don't know why you would want to put in old paper capacitors if you still wanted it to work.looks fine to me.just asking for trouble IMHO to replace those new ones with old paper caps.

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 Post subject: Re: What would YOU do with this mess?
PostPosted: Jun Tue 05, 2012 12:08 am 
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hcheetham wrote:
he said he has all the old dud paper capacitors to replace the new updated ones in it with, I don't know why you would want to put in old paper capacitors if you still wanted it to work.looks fine to me.just asking for trouble IMHO to replace those new ones with old paper caps.


Maybe the OP is wanting to install the new capacitors inside the old wax capacitor housings?? I've actually done this on occasion.


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 Post subject: Re: What would YOU do with this mess?
PostPosted: Jun Tue 05, 2012 12:21 am 
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yea maybe he is.wasn't thinking about that.

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 Post subject: Re: What would YOU do with this mess?
PostPosted: Jun Tue 05, 2012 6:15 am 
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My restorations look something like this. I avoid breaking wafer switches and tube sockets by looping the leads. Repairs looked like this in the old days too. My sets run great, this is cleaner than old re-stuffed capacitors in my opinion.
These old small sets will never be valuable, especially in the future, so I just make them safe to run and spend very little money on them.
Don

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 Post subject: Re: What would YOU do with this mess?
PostPosted: Jun Tue 05, 2012 10:08 am 
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Dave Mc wrote:
This is one of the worst examples of a recap I have seen! All orange drops (yuck) mostly just tacked soldered to the clipped leads of the previous components. Fortunately, all of the original resistors look to be there.

The radio actually works. But I cannot live with this mess! I have all of the original Zenith dud paper capacitors needed to reverse the "restoration". But I have no clue what the original filter caps looked like - they appear to be individual tubulars just looking at the parts list.

Other changes made: the grille cloth and cardboard backer have been replaced. The line cord has been replaced (new vinyl with an old type acorn plug). And the (I assume) asbestos insulator inside the cabinet has been replaced by a piece of aluminum foil!

I'm thinking that maybe the best thing to do is to just flip it and not worry about it!

The radio works, so the previous restorer did his job correctly.

You don't like it because it's not absolutely in "stock" condition. When you pull the chassis out of the cabinet, flip it over, and look at it, it obviously disgusts you.

Since you'll most likely be doing that often, sell it. Life's too short.

And next time you buy a radio, make sure it's guaranteed not to have been worked on (non-working condition would be a good indicator).

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 Post subject: Re: What would YOU do with this mess?
PostPosted: Jun Tue 05, 2012 12:32 pm 
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fifties wrote:
And next time you buy a radio, make sure it's guaranteed not to have been worked on (non-working condition would be a good indicator).

Yes, I generally ONLY purchase radios that do not work. I prefer to find them with really ratty and dangerous original power cords! This one was purchased at a radio meet and stated as not working. But the only reason it was not working was that one tube was missing (6X5).

Everyone's focus on this hobby is different. Some are "fix to flip" types. Some service radios for customers. Some strip the finish for the smallest defect. Some collect excellent original examples and never restore them to working condition. And there are likely hundreds of variations. In my case, it is a HOBBY! I do not worry about how long it takes to restore a radio. My objective is to ATTEMPT to reverse any previous servicing and restoration and return the top and bottom chassis appearance to original condition. Obviously, this is not always possible. But I try to get as close as possible. I restuff capacitors: both filters and wax/paper types. Whenever one has been replaced, I try to find an original and restuff. I collect branded dud capacitors just for this purpose (Zenith, Philco, RCA etc. plus commonly used generic brands such as Dubilier Cub, Sprague, etc.) Obviously some caps cannot (easily) be restuffed: Solar Sealdtite etc.

I also collect NOS and used dogbone resistors as well as some vintage carbon resistors. If a dogbone resistor needs to be replaced, I find one that is the right size and value within tolerance and repaint it using hobby paint to the correct original value. Obviously I am not alone in this interest: used and NOS dogbone resistors have gone through the roof on eBay!

Obviously, I use new axial capacitors for restuffing rather than Orange Drops. I simply hate the look of orange drops. At least the yellow Chinese parts are axial leaded.

I always remove a component remnants from a terminal or socket lug, and have NEVER had a problem with breakage. But one has to take their time and be careful. I use a good solder sucker, and if there are good components present at the joint, I use old medical clamps (hemostats) to prevent heat damage. And I use a variable temperature (small) soldering iron.

I never refinish, and never purchase a radio that has been refinished - even if expertly done. To me, it is not longer an antique. And yes, I have several radios that are unrestored and all original. I think we owe that to future collectors.

I do use the correct tube types (G types for Zenith, Philco etc.) and shields but rarely am able to obtain the original branded types (with appropriate date codes!). That is one area I do not obsess about. And yes, ALL my sets have 6X5G's installed if that's what they used originally. Although I rarely apply power once restored. And when I do, through a fused bucking transformer at 108 volts. And they are never left playing unattended.

So that is MY focus on the hobby. Your mileage will likely vary.

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 Post subject: Re: What would YOU do with this mess?
PostPosted: Jun Tue 05, 2012 2:32 pm 
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Not the worst job I have ever seen but it would be nice to have, say, all the replacement caps soldered direct with sleeving over the leads, etc. Wicking all the solder off the terminals and unwrapping all the leads is time consuming for sure, especially in a crowded chassis. Not too much sloppier than some factory work I have seen but you can do better with time and determination. Would have been interesting to see the pre restoration. All those bare leads hanging out do make me nervous even though it is probably totally practical, as long as you are sure that nothing is close to shorting out against something else. That is a consideration with modern parts that may be smaller than originals. THe modern cord is of course, a safety issue. Probably the old one was cracking. If you want to make it cloth covered you can buy that stuff by the foot. Assuming the original was cloth, too.


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 Post subject: Re: What would YOU do with this mess?
PostPosted: Jun Tue 05, 2012 2:46 pm 
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wazz wrote:
THe modern cord is of course, a safety issue. Probably the old one was cracking. If you want to make it cloth covered you can buy that stuff by the foot. Assuming the original was cloth, too.

I believe that Zeniths of this age used standard parallel brown rubber cords rather than cloth. The one installed is OK, although it is the thicker variety. I prefer to use the thinner type, non-polarized plug - closer to the original. I often use TV cheater cords with the socket cut off. I also purchased all I could find or the thinner variety at the last swap meet (from Mark Oppat). For cloth covered, I normally use reproduction antique lamp cord which has cloth covered conductors - available from many suppliers. I refuse to to use the cloth covered vinyl zipcord type.

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