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 Post subject: Aircastle Cabinet, What Mohawk Lacquer Colors To Use?
PostPosted: Nov Thu 08, 2018 4:13 am 
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Joined: Aug Mon 20, 2018 6:33 pm
Posts: 8
Hi guys,
I got the electronics running !!
Wondering what would be the right Mohawk Lacquers to use.
Using the Ultra Classic series toners,
What would be a good color to use for the dark brown sections?
Also is the light section just clear lacquer? or is it colored?

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Thanks for your help !!
Lewis


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 Post subject: Re: Aircastle Cabinet, What Mohawk Lacquer Colors To Use?
PostPosted: Nov Thu 08, 2018 9:52 am 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2945
Location: Nr London, England, SS1 3PT
You don't say what you are intending to do? Is it strip and refinish or touch up?

That's a pretty beautiful cabinet as is so unless you are an expert, and you obviously aren't, then I would be thinking just touch up.

Classic toner are not easy to use and even finding the right shades is trial and error. See my thoughts here:
antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=346725&start=20

It looks as if its been cleaned and there are lots of threads on the Forum for touch up. What you could do with toner is after good preparation use an obliterating toner (Mohawk Tone Toner) to overspray the dark parts.


Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Aircastle Cabinet, What Mohawk Lacquer Colors To Use?
PostPosted: Nov Thu 08, 2018 4:58 pm 
Member

Joined: Nov Mon 05, 2007 11:08 pm
Posts: 2652
Location: Calgary Alberta
Welcome to the forum.
Every one of us that works on cabinets has a little different way of doing them.
Some just clean them up and give them a coat of wax; others do the whole stripping
routine.
if this cabinet was mine I would strip it completely [take photos before]
I would give it a coat of dark walnut stain over the whole radio. Let it sit overnight and then wipe it down with a clean rag. then give it a coat of [one part shellac ,five parts gas line antifreeze]
as a sealer.
Mask off the area on the top and use Mohawk Vandyke brown. I would use the same toner around the grill. Possible use Extra dark walnut on the bottom.

If you find that you don't like the color, you can always remove it easily with 50/05 acetone and lacquer thinner.
Here is an RCA I did like that.
These colors are a personal preference, but they do come close to the original colors.
Dan in Calgary


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 Post subject: Re: Aircastle Cabinet, What Mohawk Lacquer Colors To Use?
PostPosted: Nov Thu 08, 2018 6:24 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2945
Location: Nr London, England, SS1 3PT
If his cabinet is as good as it appears in the photo I bet I could make that look "good from a few feet", as an old friend used to say :) , without a complete strip.

He is presumably new to cabinet refinishing else he wouldn't be asking these question. Its too nice, big and difficult IMO without tackling some smaller table sets first.

Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Aircastle Cabinet, What Mohawk Lacquer Colors To Use?
PostPosted: Nov Sat 10, 2018 9:53 pm 
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Joined: Aug Mon 20, 2018 6:33 pm
Posts: 8
Hi Guys,

Here's a few more photos of the cabinet showing the damage.
The cabinet does need to be stripped, the damage can be seen in these photos.
On the sides, the finish can be removed with your fingernail.
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Here is a recent photo of a Philco 80jr I just finished.
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So I am experienced with using the Classic series toners. I also build scale models and spray many types of paint using an airbrush.
I'm just asking what colors of the the Ultra Classic toners to use for this finish.

Thanks guys for all your help !!
Lewis


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 Post subject: Re: Aircastle Cabinet, What Mohawk Lacquer Colors To Use?
PostPosted: Nov Sun 11, 2018 9:50 am 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2945
Location: Nr London, England, SS1 3PT
Well the Philco looks from the pic just like a radio done with Classic toners The light part doesn't look uniform and the dark maybe too dark. It doesn't appear to have any shine?

I wouldn't touch the Aircastle with Classics, said why in a previous thread that I linked to. Chaz said how to do it and the only thing different I would do is use a oil based stain and thin it with Mineral Spirits first off. Far easier to go over it to make it darker if you want.

That console will take a lot of gloss lacquer cans :D

Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Aircastle Cabinet, What Mohawk Lacquer Colors To Use?
PostPosted: Nov Sun 11, 2018 4:44 pm 
Member

Joined: Nov Mon 05, 2007 11:08 pm
Posts: 2652
Location: Calgary Alberta
Everyone has a little different method of doing cabinets.
I have never used classic toners, so I can't comment on the colors of them
If I can find a photo of an original one, I try to duplicate the best way I can.
In your radio you already have the basic colors there.

On yours , I would use Dark Van Dyke brown on the top areas and the center of the grill.
Around the bottom looks a little different, and I don't know what color it would be called.
possibly just Van Dyke brown. You could make it darker with a light dusting on Extra dark walnut over the Van Dyke
brown, although that would make it darker than the other areas
The combinations are endless.
There is not a lot of difference in either of these two . it comes down to a personal preference.
On a couple of radios I have done I have had to remove the toner after I put it on because it
just did not look right.
To remove the toner use a 50/50 mixture of lacquer thinner and acetone,, with 0000 steel wool

http://www.antiqueradios.com/features/lacquer.html
Follow this link, and put it in your favorites.
I generally don't use grain filler, but some of the guys do.
It sounds like you are on the right track and I am interested in seeing the finished radio.
Dan in Calgary.


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 Post subject: Re: Aircastle Cabinet, What Mohawk Lacquer Colors To Use?
PostPosted: Nov Sun 11, 2018 7:41 pm 
New Member

Joined: Aug Mon 20, 2018 6:33 pm
Posts: 8
Thanks guys,

My understanding from reading all the various forums out there is not to use stain, but to use the lacquer toners and clears because this is the way the original radios were finished.
As far as using the rattle cans, I would do the radio in sections, not all at once.
So Van Dyke for the dark sections, would you think the sides are simply a clear finish?
I agree about the grain filler, sanding sealer should be enough.

Thanks!
Lewis


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 Post subject: Re: Aircastle Cabinet, What Mohawk Lacquer Colors To Use?
PostPosted: Nov Mon 12, 2018 9:26 am 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2945
Location: Nr London, England, SS1 3PT
Originally they had tinted toner in large high pressure spray guns used by men (maybe women :) ) who had a lot of experience in doing it. Whole lot of difference to spray cans of Mohawk Classic.

Stain isn't how they did it because they had apparatus that most of us don't have and it cut out one step in the process. Time counted and it probably took minutes to spray the body colour of a radio in a booth. But stain works fine for DIY now as Chaz has shown.

Would use grain filler myself.

The sides/top wouldn't have been clear coat: buyers liked them a little dark and it was a way of masking the differences in the woods used. Just strip a little with some thinners and see the colour of the veneers ...

Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Aircastle Cabinet, What Mohawk Lacquer Colors To Use?
PostPosted: Nov Mon 12, 2018 10:59 am 
Site Admin

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 10268
Location: Baguio City, Philippines
There are two types of stains, pigmented stains and dye stains. The pigmented ones are cloudy looking in the can and have opaque particles suspended in a solvent. The dye stains are clearer looking, not having the opaque particles in them. The dye stains are preferable to use because they mimic the look of toners, which are dyes suspended in lacquer. The advantage of using stain over toner is that it is a lot easier to apply an even color coat, especially if the alternative is from a spray can. If you have an air sprayer, then that advantage is moot.

I think the best course is to match the color tones of the original when refinishing cabinet. If "restoration" is the goal, then having it look as close to a factory finish and color as possible should be the goal. The problem is after you strip the cabinet you have no reference to what the exact color should be (unless you happen to have a second set near by). A good tip to match colors is to collect as many different stain chip charts as you can. Before you remove the finish, wet it with a little naptha or mineral spirits and go through the different chip charts and find a sample that's the same color/hue as the finish. It doesn't mean this is the product or color to use, it just is something to match to later.

To create that match first start by applying a wash coat of shellac to the cabinet (one part shellac from a can thinner with 4- to 5 parts alcohol aka "denatured alcohol" in the US). This will seal the surface so that the dye layer coats evenly and so that anything done before (like grain filling) will be protected from the solvents in the stain and lets you back up a step later on, if needed.

Apply a coat of stain. What ever color/tint you think will get you closest to the desired result. Let it dry. If you're happy so far, apply another wash coat of shellac on top. If you're not happy with the color you can wipe it off with naphtha or mineral spirits and try again.

After the first coat, if you need to make adjustments you can layer additional stain coats on top, sealing each one with shellac. For instance, if the color seems to blue, you can add a Golden Oak stain to warn it up. Add a second coat of Walnut stain if it needs to be darker. You'll get a feel for what is needed after doing it a couple of times. Just remember the shellac acts as a barrier to the solvents in the stain, allowing you to make adjustments without affecting the previous layers.

Once you get a good color match, add a last wash coat of shellac and apply lacquer.


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 Post subject: Re: Aircastle Cabinet, What Mohawk Lacquer Colors To Use?
PostPosted: Nov Mon 12, 2018 11:01 am 
Site Admin

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 10268
Location: Baguio City, Philippines
btw, all cabinet surfaces probably had colored lacquer sprayed on them rather than clear. The tint would even out different hues in different pieces of veneer.


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