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 Post subject: Re: Grain filler, I'm confused!
PostPosted: Jul Wed 06, 2016 4:22 pm 
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Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Really? Thinned shellac, with the consistency of water, you find hard to brush on?


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 Post subject: Re: Grain filler, I'm confused!
PostPosted: Jul Wed 06, 2016 5:42 pm 
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Posts: 2540
Location: England
I have sanding sealer on the shelf and it is years old ... I had a disaster with it, cant remember what went wrong but I have never touched it since. Cabinet refinishing is scary as it can go wrong so quick and you don't know why. Sometimes a month or a year afterwards. Have you ever had hair cracks come through ? :(

For me I try to stick to as few chems as possible and ones that have worked in the past and the radio is still as it was refinished years later. Basically I strip and ideally just using thinners, grain fill (sprit based and coloured) and then spray only with Mohawk toners.

You are lucky over there as great products are easy to obtain. The last 10 cans of lacquer I ordered from a UK supplier he had stuffed in 3 Behlen !! But now I've got lucky as a a local supplier is stocking Mohawk and I can go and see what I'm getting. Last 10 I bought didn't have the fan nozzle on them ! Never quite right is it but I have a few spare nozzles.

Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Grain filler, I'm confused!
PostPosted: Jul Thu 07, 2016 3:08 am 
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Location: West Hazleton PA.
So you apply the grain filler and then sanding sealer? Do you also apply the grain filler with a credit card? then wipe it off before it completely dries, so you don't have to sand? Do you apply the grain filler only one time?


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 Post subject: Re: Grain filler, I'm confused!
PostPosted: Jul Thu 07, 2016 8:07 am 
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Location: England
Well, some may not believe this but it is possible for a credit card to put scratches on the wood as it happened to me. Possibly the edges of the card pick up the grain filler and the corners become extra abrasive. If you can find a hard rubber block as I suggested its much better iMO.

Never use sanding sealer myself just grain filler and its done, as described at least twice. Its labour intensive but its a hobby, no rush :D

Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Grain filler, I'm confused!
PostPosted: Jul Tue 19, 2016 8:27 am 
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Location: Fort Mohave Arizona 86426
Radio Fixer wrote:
Don't know if you have them over there? But here we can buy for £2 or less a rubber sanding block that you cut the paper to fit. It has a flap top at each end that lifts to grip the paper. I have one where I cut off the top flaps and that makes a good tool. Its larger enough to fit the hand well and the rubber edge pushes the filler in with no damage.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/rubber-sandin ... ools-_-all\tools\sanding\other_221d6c08-90b1-49a3-b399-b45ed15085d5&gclid=CPCO7eDh0c0CFZEK0wodoB0KOg

I work with the grain and only lightly rub off leaving quite a lot of scum on the surface. But I remove this with say 240 grit aluminium oxide paper and then go up to 400 or 600 silicon carbide. To me starting with 400 grit would take ages and silicon carbide clogs a lot more.

It still takes at least 2 or more goes though.

Thanks for the White Spirit correction Alan ...I'll try to remember. De-natured alcohol is Meths (Methylated Spirits)

Gary


I am going to throw my 2 cents worth into this conversation.
You can buy a grout float for around 10 to 15 dollars at any hardware store. They are a bit on the big side maybe 3 X 6 or a little larger however they are used to force grout into the spaces in between tile. They are a plyable rubber and will force the filler in to the grain. The nice thing is that with a little pressure and angle they will remove most all of the excess. They have advantage's over credit cards and squeegees. Take a chance , live big, try one!! Sam


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 Post subject: Re: Grain filler, I'm confused!
PostPosted: Oct Mon 31, 2016 6:03 pm 
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Okay, here I go again! I purchased a Zenith 7S363 and a Zenith 12S265, I finished the 7S363 and the grain filler job didn't come out as good as I would have liked it to. I tried two times to apply the crystalac water based filler and I can still see some of the grain! It's not as deep as the grain would be without it, but it's noticeable! So I bought Old Masters Wood grain Filler Natural Tone and it says that I'm supposed to mix it with 1 part wood stain and 2 part filler. I did this wiped it on, waited 15 minutes (that's what the instructions say on the can) and wiped it all right back off! The stuff never got into a putty form like I expected! This is a pain in the NECK! Can I use regular wood putty or wood filler from Lowe's or Home Depot instead of this fancy garbage off of the internet? What product is easy to use and not a hassle?


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 Post subject: Re: Grain filler, I'm confused!
PostPosted: Oct Mon 31, 2016 6:58 pm 
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Location: England
See the Plaster of Paris tip, I'll see if I can fine a link.

Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Grain filler, I'm confused!
PostPosted: Oct Mon 31, 2016 11:15 pm 
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Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Wood putty won't work.

Did you mix the filler thoroughly before you colored it with the stain? If you poured some into a container and added the stain you might not have incorporated all the solids in the original can which would affect the setting up time. Tip: store cans (including paint) upside down. That way the heavier ingredients that settle out will be on top when you open the can and it will be easier to mix it back.

Application: you need to push the filler down into the open grain of the wood. A rubber squeegee is a good tool to use here as it also removes the excess from the surface at the same time. You then need to let the filler set up properly before continuing. Rather than using a clock, which is dependent on your conditions being the same as the manufacturer (temperature, humidity, amount of solvent added), use a visual clue. The light excess film let behind by the squeegee will become hazy, a sign that the solvent has evaporated. This is the point to remove that excess by buffing it against the grain with a coarse fabric like burlap or, if you can find it, horsehair, which was a common upholstery material. I prefer the consistency to be around that of mayonnaise, liquid, but with some body to it. It's ine to be more watery than that. It will just take longer to set up.


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 Post subject: Re: Grain filler, I'm confused!
PostPosted: Nov Sun 06, 2016 12:01 am 
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Joined: Aug Wed 06, 2014 12:27 am
Posts: 38
I usually use shellac as a grain filler. When I used to spray lacquer I would use a few diluted layers.

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 Post subject: Re: Grain filler, I'm confused!
PostPosted: Nov Tue 08, 2016 1:48 am 
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Okay, I'm leaving myself open to critics!
Attachment:
DSC01585.JPG
DSC01585.JPG [ 157.83 KiB | Viewed 2508 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Grain filler, I'm confused!
PostPosted: Nov Tue 08, 2016 1:54 am 
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Here's another shot! The flash shows the too lightly tinted crystallac grain filler (almost white) in the top front on the sides.
Attachment:
DSC01584.JPG
DSC01584.JPG [ 209.54 KiB | Viewed 2506 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Grain filler, I'm confused!
PostPosted: Nov Wed 09, 2016 12:30 am 
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I think the cabinet turned out quite nice! Lets not talk about your bezel------- :)

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 Post subject: Re: Grain filler, I'm confused!
PostPosted: Feb Tue 21, 2017 12:01 am 
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What's wrong with the bezel? it was gold! Anyway, I'm at it again! I'm currently trying to use grain filler on a Atwater Kent model 325 cabinet and I'm not getting the hang of this! I tried using OLD MASTERS wood grain filler with just enough stain added to tint the mix. After I applied it with a credit card , I waited about a 15 to 20 minutes ( like the directions on the can say with a temperature of about 65 degrees) to wipe it off using a piece of burlap from a roll of burlap. It looks like I'm wiping the grain filler away! I'm going against the grain too! And the fuzz from the burlap! Then I tried using Crystalac grain filler again and I'm still seeing the grains in the wood! Come on, there has to be an easier way to do this!? These are larger cabinets! What is the easiest or best grain filler to use that's available here in the United states?


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 Post subject: Re: Grain filler, I'm confused!
PostPosted: Feb Tue 21, 2017 1:51 am 
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This is the 2nd time around with the grain filler in my 65 degree garage.


Attachments:
File comment: brush the mix of grain filler and stain, then let it set for 15 minutes, then wipe of against the grain?
DSC01666.JPG
DSC01666.JPG [ 98.59 KiB | Viewed 2214 times ]
File comment: I think I hid some grain!
DSC01667.JPG
DSC01667.JPG [ 128.54 KiB | Viewed 2214 times ]
File comment: Is this really what I need to fill the grain? Does this look like what you all would use?
DSC01668.JPG
DSC01668.JPG [ 141.59 KiB | Viewed 2214 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Grain filler, I'm confused!
PostPosted: Feb Tue 21, 2017 2:46 am 
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Location: Ann Arbor, MI
The best thing to use to remove excess filler is horse hair, something that was used in upholstery (along with cotton batting), before the advent of polyester batting and foam rubber. It works so much better than burlap ever will. You might be able to find some cheaply if you contact upholstery shops as they likely redo pieces that used it originally.

The time to remove the excess, which if you applied it carefully should be very little, is when it turns hazy looking.


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 Post subject: Re: Grain filler, I'm confused!
PostPosted: Mar Tue 07, 2017 2:12 am 
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Location: Effingham, IL
I never had much luck using Crystalac grain filler. When it would start to dry the buildup not in the grain would become difficult to remove . I quit trying to use it . Maybe others will weigh in on that product.


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 Post subject: Re: Grain filler, I'm confused!
PostPosted: Mar Tue 07, 2017 3:41 am 
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Alan Voorhees wrote:
If you take off the excess with horsehair or burlap before it's completely dry it's a lot easier.
Indeed. I found a roll of burlap at a fabric store a few years ago and bought a few yards, enough to last a long time.

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 Post subject: Re: Grain filler, I'm confused!
PostPosted: Mar Tue 07, 2017 2:08 pm 
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I dislike Crystalac. I use Constantine's, http://www.constantines.com/woodperfectgrainfiller.aspx

My method is to apply one coat with a disposable brush. Let it sit until it hazes over, then wipe off against the grain with burlap. Let it dry overnight. I usually do a light sanding the next day (220 grit), and then fill again to make sure all the grain is filled.

Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Grain filler, I'm confused!
PostPosted: Mar Wed 08, 2017 2:38 pm 
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Like others, I tried Crystalac and ended up throwing it out. Way, way to difficult for me to use... not worth the effort. A friend recommended I try a guitar refinishing product sold by Stewmac. It's a water based filler and very easy to use. I have no affiliation with this company, just happy with their products and the results I get using it. I prefer their rosewood color. Here is the link if you want to read about it:
http://www.stewmac.com/Materials_and_Su ... aQodASMJcg

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 Post subject: Re: Grain filler, I'm confused!
PostPosted: Mar Sun 12, 2017 11:03 pm 
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Aright! This is kind of what I wanted to hear! It wasn't or isn't me, that Crystalac grain filler is garbage, and that others gave up on it and found something easier to use with better results! Thank you Peter and Dnitram for the links, I'll check those grain fillers out and I'll let you guys know how I do on my next console. THANK YOU!


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