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 Post subject: Toner Bubble
PostPosted: Nov Tue 28, 2017 3:07 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
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Location: West Babylon, NY USA
Hi , Working on a Zenith 715 radio.. Sanded down the cabinet , apply stain, Let it dry for a couple of days... Then proceeded to apply toner. Each time I apply the toner it bubbles . So far I have started over three times .What am I doing wrong ?

thanks

Drew..


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 Post subject: Re: Toner Bubble
PostPosted: Nov Tue 28, 2017 3:13 am 
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Location: Columbus Ohio
looks like oil contamination

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 Post subject: Re: Toner Bubble
PostPosted: Nov Tue 28, 2017 3:17 am 
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Location: Omak,wa,usa
Hello drew
it looks to me it maybe silicone contamination that happens alot restoring cars along with painting cars


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 Post subject: Re: Toner Bubble
PostPosted: Nov Tue 28, 2017 3:32 am 
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How do I stop this ?


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 Post subject: Re: Toner Bubble
PostPosted: Nov Tue 28, 2017 7:45 pm 
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Location: Atlanta, GA
I’ve been down this toner “bubble” road more times than I care to admit. As far as to what you can do now, that depends on where it is on the cabinet. If it were mine, IF it was in a section that was separate from the rest of the cabinet, I’d strip it to the bare wood and start over, but that may not be an option. You may need to strip it all to the bare wood and start over. Either way, there is obviously a containment in the wood (oil – silicon –probably from someone using furniture polish which go into the wood). If I can’t save the finish on a cabinet and have to strip it, I’ve gotten so I try to prevent the problem prior to refinishing the wood. I personally use StripEze stripper. After the finish has been removed, I carefully clean the wood with mineral spirits on paper towels, rotating the towels, trying to keep from spreading any potential contaminates the towels may pick up while wiping. After that, I do the same, but using fresh, clean lacquer thinner. If I sand the bare wood, after cleaning the dust off, I go back and clean it again with lacquer thinner. Depending if the wood type needs grain filler, if I want to truly be safe, I’ll apply a light coat of spray shellac over the wood (after the grain filler and the cabinet has again been sanded). I recently began using Mohawk’s EZ-Sealer and prefer it to their regular sanding sealer. Not to say I won’t have a problem again, but this method has worked well for me, especially when using toning lacquers. Oh, one additional note! I also discovered that for some reason, toning lacquer, especially if it’s a few years old, can cause similar problems. If I’m using older toning lacquer, I shake, shake and shake some more.

There are members on this site that are much more qualified than I am AND I’m sure they can give you better advice than me. I always appreciate comments and advice from many of them, such as Fred Taylor. So much of the cabinet work I see that they occasionally post is just amazingly good!

Hope you get your problem straightened out.

David

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 Post subject: Re: Toner Bubble
PostPosted: Nov Thu 30, 2017 3:51 am 
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thanks, appreciate the info...fyi , its the top of the radio


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 Post subject: Re: Toner Bubble
PostPosted: Nov Thu 30, 2017 10:17 am 
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Looks like a cathedral from the pics... start all over again.

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 Post subject: Re: Toner Bubble
PostPosted: Nov Thu 30, 2017 6:47 pm 
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Location: Georgetown, Indiana
I recently had this problem on an antique dresser that I was refinishing. My solution was to use some Zinnsser Sealcoat, which is wax-free shellac.

https://www.rustoleum.com/product-catal ... ing-sealer

I can buy this locally at Menards.

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 Post subject: Re: Toner Bubble
PostPosted: Nov Thu 30, 2017 8:08 pm 
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Joined: Dec Tue 14, 2010 7:52 pm
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Location: Kuna, ID
You could lightly sand it to even the surface then add "fish eye eliminator" to your paint and add one more thin coat. Fish eye eliminator is available from most any auto paint store.
Good luck!

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 Post subject: Re: Toner Bubble
PostPosted: Dec Fri 01, 2017 12:10 am 
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Part of my process is to also stain using minwax natural, and this is only to fill the pores of the wood so my walnut tinted grain filler doesn't darken the wood. Later, I tone out with different tints as needed.

Since you stained, if you used Minwax, you have to heed the "wax" part of the name, and get off all of the excess. A common mistake people make is to put too much on, and then nothing after that will stick. The wood will only absorb so much stain and the rest sits on the top.

Like other posters, my advice is to strip off all the lacquer using lacquer thinner, and go back over and make sure all of that excess stain is rubbed out, you can even sand it again with 600 grit so it doesn't leave visible scratches...then sanding sealer, resand. Then try the lacquer.

If you were using stain to get different color effects, a better choice is toning lacquers. You never know to what degree a wood will absorb stain, and it can come out unevenly, blotchy, and then it's tough to correct. Toning lacquers come in dyes and pigments, the later will obscure the grain, and the former will allow the grain to come through.

Another poster mentioned "fish eye" also called blush. This is a different scenario when spraying lacquers, water vapor gets trapped under the lacquer and causes a blotchy white haze. This happened to me once on a humid day. Blush eliminator or fish eye eliminator in this case can miraculously solves this problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Toner Bubble
PostPosted: Dec Fri 01, 2017 12:11 am 
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Quote:
if I want to truly be safe, I’ll apply a light coat of spray shellac over the wood (after the grain filler and the cabinet has again been sanded).


Yes to this advice! ^^^

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 Post subject: Re: Toner Bubble
PostPosted: Dec Sat 02, 2017 7:42 am 
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SmoothOscillator wrote:
Another poster mentioned "fish eye" also called blush. This is a different scenario when spraying lacquers, water vapor gets trapped under the lacquer and causes a blotchy white haze. This happened to me once on a humid day. Blush eliminator or fish eye eliminator in this case can miraculously solves this problem.


I beg to differ. Classic fish eye is when pooling and craters form when a new finish is applied. Caused buy silicone or some other contamination creating uneven surface tension.

https://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeow ... r-fisheyes


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 Post subject: Re: Toner Bubble
PostPosted: Dec Sun 03, 2017 2:26 am 
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Yup, stand corrected - blush is trapped water and fish-eye is contaminant.

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20-30s homebrew ham components
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 Post subject: Re: Toner Bubble
PostPosted: Dec Sun 03, 2017 6:01 am 
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Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Silicone infection from spraying Pledge furniture polish on it. Completely stripping the finish is not a guaranteed solution, nor is using shellac, although both are good avenues of attack. The properties of silicone can make it difficult to completely remove. Also, if you're spraying with a gun, adding fisheye eliminator should help a lot. It changes the surface tension of the lacquer and makes the bubble formation mire difficult.


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