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 Post subject: HP 410B
PostPosted: Dec Tue 13, 2016 4:41 pm 
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I just got two HP 410B's from Ebay, they are FILTHY. Probes seem to be intact but wires are cracked and broken, I would say all need to be replaced, power cords are frayed and one is broken, ground prong on the 3 prong plugs have both been cut off, etc....I'm sure we have bad capacitors, resistors, I'm looking forward to getting into them and getting them back up and running. They were Ewaste and they were going to be junked, I LOVE old test equipment and I just couldn't see that happening.
I know there's discussion on which is the best VTVM, etc..., the 410B and C have to rank up there if in good shape and calibrated correctly.
SO, AC probe, both cables are SHOT, insulation is cracked and brittle, mostly flaked off on one. I'm assuming you would replace the cable with a good Tri-Axial cable, inner shield is the ground, outer shield carries the filament voltage.
These things are BIG, they look very well built, both still have the OLD leather handles and from the looks of it, they saw a LOT of use.
Power cables, 3 prong and they are HEAVY cables, do I need that heavy of a cable, they won't see high voltage use. Just some initial questions I will put up pictures of the two before I clean them, I think the kids would say, Narly dude.
Thanks for your help.
Keith

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 Post subject: Re: HP 410B
PostPosted: Dec Wed 14, 2016 3:06 am 
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You can get replacement triaxial cable from Kiss Electronics:
http://www.kiss-electronics.com/products.htm

Or at least you used to be able to get one there. Their web page now says it's not available. Hopefully they'll get some back in stock.

You can also have them rebuild the probe leads.

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 Post subject: Re: HP 410B
PostPosted: Dec Wed 14, 2016 5:16 am 
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Joined: Jul Tue 21, 2009 1:38 pm
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Location: SW WA state
Keith,

I'm glad that you rescued the 410's!
The B's are a great piece of test equipment.
I think I have three or four of them.
One is great, and two need to have minor work done on them.
I've done tube replacements, can't remember if I had to do anything beyond that other than cleaning and calibrating.
Somewhere, I even have a NIB cable set when mine finally crap out.
That as the score of a lifetime for something like $5.
I think I even picked up and RF sampler (like a Bird 43) so you can insert the AC probe into it and measure real RF voltage!
Best of Luck restoring yours!

-Tom


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 Post subject: Re: HP 410B
PostPosted: Dec Thu 15, 2016 4:27 am 
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Thanks Tom and Stevebyan;
They are really neat old pieces. They are FULL of dirt, I don't know the story but it must have been bad. I'm going to open them up and take pictures. If the outside is any indicator of the inside, wow, should be fun.
I will try and find the Kiss site and see what they have.
Keith

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 Post subject: Re: HP 410B
PostPosted: Dec Thu 15, 2016 4:46 am 
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First one, on a very slow power up on the variac, the red light actually began to glow and meter move, I shut it down very quickly but there's some life in there somewhere.
Should be fun to work on.
Keith


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 Post subject: Re: HP 410B
PostPosted: Dec Thu 15, 2016 5:12 am 
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More Pixs


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 Post subject: Re: HP 410B
PostPosted: Dec Thu 15, 2016 4:29 pm 
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Location: SW WA state
Keith,

Thanks for the pix!
Replacing the rubber cable is easy, I used 16 gauge new cable of the same type.
That way, I was able to restore everything but the AC measurement capability.
Hope you can find the triaxial cable!
The units look dirty, but otherwise OK.
I think you'll be able to restore them just fine!

-Tom


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 Post subject: Re: HP 410B
PostPosted: Dec Thu 15, 2016 5:09 pm 
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Don't power it on with the triax cable for AC probe deteriorated. The wires tend to short in a damaged cable which often burns out the 6-4 ballast tube.

-Mark-

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 Post subject: Re: HP 410B
PostPosted: Dec Thu 15, 2016 7:13 pm 
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Thanks Tom and Mark;
I gotta get them apart and cleaned up, check tubes, check and replace capacitor/resistors etc... I think I'll be able to come by the superflex triaxial cable. I'll get some 16 gauge cable and start replacing, I think most of the cabling is shot, even if it looks good, it's probably deteriorated to the point of replacement. Good advice and tips as always. Thanks again!
Keith

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 Post subject: Re: HP 410B
PostPosted: Dec Wed 21, 2016 1:45 am 
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Of course, I got to checking cables last night, had some time to play! Wouldn't you know the older model HP 410B didn't have a 2-01c in the AC probe, sigh. The "newer" model did have one in the probe. Ordered another 2-01c, ouch, but let's hope that they both work. Started doing detailed checks of the cables, I was surprised, wow HP must have used some GREAT triaxial cable, not bad, still pliable and I'm not seeing any breaks in the triax. Some of the other cable is shot, AC cords are shot. Looks like they were kept in a barn or warehouse, lots of surface dirt. Going to take the front and back off tonight on the older one and see what it looks like inside.
Have fun out there, this is a GREAT hobby, love delving into old equipment, love it even more when I can resurrect it.
Keith

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 Post subject: Re: HP 410B
PostPosted: Dec Fri 23, 2016 5:37 am 
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WOW, opened up the newer model, there was a rat's nest inside. He had packed in an impressive amount of junk. Doesn't look as though he/she did a lot of damage but there is a little bit. Pictures to follow.
So does anyone know how to test a 6-4 ballast tube? I have a jackson 648A, can't seem to find a set up for the ballast tube?

Thanks for your help.
Keith
resistor checking next, checking all the tubes now.


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 Post subject: Re: HP 410B
PostPosted: Dec Fri 23, 2016 4:28 pm 
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Joined: Feb Sat 11, 2012 12:44 am
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Location: Deer Park, NY
The quick test of the 6-4 ballast is continuity test from pin 2 to pin 7. The ballast tube in the 410B is a series regulator for the probe tube filament. You can perform more complete test with a variable power supply to test its regulating ability. 6-4 denotes 600ma/4volts threshold point.
Continuity test is fine.

Jerry
W2JI


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 Post subject: Re: HP 410B
PostPosted: Jan Tue 03, 2017 5:05 am 
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Thanks Jerry;
There IS continuity between pins 2 an 7. I guess it's good.
Keith

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 Post subject: Re: HP 410B
PostPosted: Jan Tue 03, 2017 5:49 am 
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So, pictures from the dark side. :) The alum. electrolytic is a 1mfd at 800v, date code 17-12? So for fun I put it on my NRI model 112 RC tester. It does measure exactly 1mfd, also on my automatic meter as well. However at 200v it's ok, but at 250 it glows orange and 500 it glows constantly and brightly. It "should" be good through 800v or close to it. It's gotta go.
All the resistors are a tad high, most are completely within the 10% range and the precise resistor's, 21.63 for example, reads 22.04. I have found no resistor's that are way out, they are close.

Sorry for the glare on some of the photos, hard to take pictures and not get a bit of glare. Happy New Year by the way and thanks for all your help. Old electrical cable is out and gone, you can see the damage to the negative and positive leads in the photos. I'm being held up by a strain relief connector, had to cut the original off, it would NOT release for love nor money. I have a mouser order in for those and a .6 amp slow blow fuse. It has a 1 amp in it now, still good, but a bit high.

I still can get the precise resistor's, they are a pretty penny, so I don't want to replace them unless I just have too.

Keith


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 Post subject: Re: HP 410B
PostPosted: Jan Tue 03, 2017 7:20 pm 
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What you have there is an early version 410B. The filter capacitor is not electrolytic, it's an oil cap. On later versions of the 410B, they went to a 4-uF, 450 volt can electrolytic in a cardboard tube. The cap is across a split power supply that delivers positive and negative voltages, so neither of its terminals connect to the chassis.

While oil caps can and do fail, they are normally extremely long-lived and rarely give trouble. It's hard to tell from the picture, but did you have the cap disconnected from the circuit when you tested it? Also, they are tested for insulation resistance rather than leakage current (your tester should be set to M/P rather than Elec.)

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 Post subject: Re: HP 410B
PostPosted: Jan Sat 07, 2017 1:28 am 
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Thanks Chris, I did not know that. Great new information. It does test at 1mfd, I did not take it out of the circuit. it tests dead on at 1 mfd, on the digital it's .998. That's one less thing to have to replace.
Good info.
Keith

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 Post subject: Re: HP 410B
PostPosted: Jan Sat 07, 2017 2:37 am 
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Um, er, the 64-cent question is, what kind of leakage reading do you get with the cap disconnected from the circuit? It's still possible for it to exhibit excessive leakage when voltage is applied, even though the capacity is on the money.

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 Post subject: Re: HP 410B
PostPosted: Jan Sat 07, 2017 3:29 am 
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My 410B is also an early model, with the oil capacitor; however, it tested leaky on the Telohmike. I replaced it with a 4 mfd. 450 volt tubular, and it works fine.

A few weeks ago, I was going through a box of capacitors that I bought at the last radio meet. In there with the caps was a 2-01C! The filament tested good, so on the shelf it went. :)

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 Post subject: Re: HP 410B
PostPosted: Jan Wed 11, 2017 5:16 pm 
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Tim;
I tested it on the solar and the NRI on the M-P setting and the electrolytic setting both show it to be very leaky, so I'm thinking I should go with the 4mfd like you did. It's an easy fix, won't look as pretty. I got a three prong replacement cord for both 410's, I want to get that in tonight if I can. Gotta replace most of the tester leads, lots rotted away. Got a new 2-01c tube, cord is in good shape, I'll have to check voltages on it, make sure we've got a proper warm probe.
I'm enjoying looking over and working on the 410's, neat machine.
Thanks for your help,
Keith

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 Post subject: Re: HP 410B
PostPosted: Jan Fri 13, 2017 4:25 am 
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Well Chris;
Don't I feel a bit stupid, the answer to the 64cent question is that once it was completely out of the circuit, it tested fine on both the solar and the NRI, it's rated at 450v and it took 520 easily, no leakage at all. So I guess this begs the question, do I put the 1mfd oil capacitor back in or replace it with a 10mfd 600v electrolytic, like the later versions have? I'm wondering why they went to the 10mfd in the later versions, perhaps they know something I don't know, which isn't hard to do.
Advice?
Thanks for your help,
Keith

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