Okay, I admit all wind-ups are still a mystery to me.

The set I picked up tonight is an H19, which seems like a common, entry level set based on appearance. What I can't figure out is why every picture of an H19 that I have found has a grill with ornate squares and rectangles and a solid toned reproducer. Mine has the same cabinet but with different grill and a reproducer with stylin' copper flames. The only other SN I found had six digits. Could this be an early production variant? I await enlightenment from Mr. V. or ?

Last patent - May 1916
ser. no. - 13127





I think it complements the Amberola 30 quite well.

According to Frow's diamond disc book, "There were several attempts at early [grille] designs, including an attractive wicker type with a central logo of 2 musical muses. There were others having 4 or 5 upright members. These were not pursued, but instead 2 principle patterns were adopted, having association with the Hepplewhite style".

So, it would seem what you have is indeed an early variant.
The hardware on the H19 is usually nickle plated, so your antique oxidised bronze reproducer etc must also be the result of early experimentation of the H19 design.
It's interesting that mentioned this machine looking good with your Amberola 30. When production of the H19 stopped in 1927, Edison actually fitted remaining cabinet stocks with drawers for record storage, and offered them to Amberola 30 owns as Special Record Filing Cabinets at $24. These held 84 cylinder records, and with the lid removed, the Amberola 30 was placed in the old turntable & horn compartment, leaving room beneath the machine for stoage of oil cans etc .
The H19 is generally a common low-end model, so if you are going to own one, one of these early rare variants is certainly the way to go.
Congratulations!

Thank you Shane. How nice to find that plain Jane has an interesting back story. I debated getting this player or waiting for a higher end piece. But after researching the 19 styles, I appreciated that this one did not put on airs like some of the fancier grilled which brought to mind those Volkswagens with Rolls Royce noses. The minimal styling really lets the beautiful wood grain take center stage. And after all the humps and domes, a flat top is refreshing. (Not dissing bulging tops. I like many of them.)

I saw a photo of that Amberola cabinet and never connected it with the 19. I should be so lucky as to find one nearby.

The 19 winder does not work. The seller said her boys broke it long ago. The culprits, now teens, helped me load it. I hope it is an easy fix that I don't need to send out for. New spring I suppose. I do love the task of finding resource material and understanding the mechanical processes even though knowledge does not translate well through my fingers. The show and tells on YouTube are helpful when I can find one specific enough. Frow's book sounds like one I will soon be reading.

Does anyone maintain an Edison registry for model/SN/patent date ? Or is the factory system too illogical like some radio companies?

Thanks again.

Actually your reproducer simply predates your machine. The oxydised copper reproducers were used on the very earliest of the Diamond Disc machines, of 1912 and 1913 vintage, and were then discontinued.

Most Hepplewhite machines were fitted with a fragile moulded sawdust "Prince of Wales Feathers" grille. These are quite commonly damaged. Your Amberola style grille may well be a collector's replacement. I do remember these simple replacement grilles being offered on the market in the late 1970's by , I think, Foster Seachrist. After 1922 or 1923 the machine was updated by being fitted with a cut-out "shield design grille.

Hepplewhite machines were trimmed in GOLD, not nickel, for some reason. Remember that the Hepplewhite (H-19) was priced at $145, and was sold at that price at the same time the larger C-150 was still in the product mix, at $150.00. The Hepplewhite needed to offer better "eye value" than the older machines in the line. The oxydised reproducer is worth a rather more than a common gold one,by the way, and yours has the hard-to-find Volume control "valve" used on the A-80. Does your machine also have the "felt Ball" volume control unit, or is that missing?

The Edison company had a relatively expensive product line. The Chippendale, Edison's most popular machine, sold for $250.00, the same price as the Victor Victrola XVII. The rather plain S-19, at $195.00, was priced to compete with the luxurious Victrola XVI, the C-150 and the H-19 (Hepplewhite) were in direct competition with the large and impressive Victrola XIV. The most popular Victrola, the still substantial XI had no real equivalent in the Edison line until the introduction of the rather chintzy "London" models in 1923, though the occasional table grand shared the price point later on, and in the 1915 line the A-100 (which was really more the visual equivalent of the 1912-13 $75.00 VV-X) was so priced at $100.00. There were really no disc nstruments offered by Edison which competed with the extremely popular low-priced Victrolas, the $75.00 VV-X, the $50.00 VV-IX, the $40.00 VV-VIII, the $25.00 VV-VI or the $15.00 VV-IV. That segment of the market was supposed to chose Amberolas, though, again, the eye value was over to the benefit of the Victor products.

Very interesting. I can see how Edison and Ford could be such close friends. Stubborn, frugal and genius both. I expect the thinking was: While we are experimenting with different grilles, on models that won't make it into general production anyway, why not use up those old fancy reproducers gathering dust in the warehouse? I will have to become familiar with the innards to see if other obsolete parts were used.

So I'm guessing mine is one of the first made. Possibly even late '18 if the regular production started early enough in '19. I'll choose to think of it like a concept car at the auto shows. Maybe at the 1918 Bronx Exposition on a revolving pedestal with Theda Bara doing the pitch and visitors voting on the styles. Or Mary Pickford if the Vamp was too racy for old Tom.

Thanks V.

Well, no.

The cabinets were designed by furniture designers. As I recall, the Hepplewhite was designed by Aimone. The prototypes exist, one is veneered in satinwood with a woven cane grille supporting an oval wood plaque with a grecian scene painted thereon, another is similar, but made of bleached striped mahogany veneers. Both were in the true Geo. Hepplewhite style. The H-19 was a production variant.

Does your machine retain the little paper sticker which identifies the cabinet factory number? If so, we can probably identify its source.

Note the collar on the horn which holds your reproducer. It retains elements of its original gold plating.

I'm pretty sure that your machine has been restored, and may not be in entirely original condition. The motorboard is typical of post 1918 production.

I am a couple hundred miles away form home, just now, caring for aged parents, but I return home pretty regularly. If you need a spring and spring barrel assembly I can send one to you if you are willing to wait until I return home for a visit. I've scrapped literally hundreds of these machines, and have owned and restored examples of nearly every production model save the Louis XVI, Louis XV, the Art Case models, and the largest of the Long Playing machines.

Thanks. The cabinet looks like it was casually rubbed down with something. Not professional looking but good enough for me.
It's factory No. 30.

As Vitanola stated, your Reproducer is the early variation and should have the separate plate that holds the stylus bar and is screwed by 4 screws to the weight.
What I do see is that your Reproducer has the sound modulator knob. There should be a felt baffle inside the output tube that revolves when you turn the knob. This is a type of volume control that was used before the kapok filled ball was installed on DD machines.
That Reproducer if complete is worth more than the machine from prices I've seen in the past.

Bill

Thanks Bill. There are 4 screws in that plate. And the revolving baffle in the same position as the knob. (similar to the Snuff-or-Not in a motorcycle muffler). It's so neat finding things that set this player apart from the herd. The reproducer is worth more to me staying with the machine until someone shows definitive evidence that it was changed out post-purchase. Better to assume originality and pass up some profit than risk making it less authentic.

Well, authenticity would involve a gold finish reproducer which matches the horn end.

After their business fell off in the 1920's, Edison did notoriously use up obsolete stock in current production but it is almost beyond the realm of possibility that your machine was fitted with this reproducer from the factory.

The oxydized copper reproducers with volume control date from 1912-1913, before the fire of December, 1914, which destroyed the entire phonograph production works, along with all assembled machines, stocks of motors, and parts. When production resumed in 1915, the Edison company began with an entirely clean slate, with newly designed motors and reproducers. According to numerous news reports of the time, along with Ron Dethlefson's notes taken directly from the Edison factory records, all stocks of pre-1915 parts were entirely destroyed.

The post-fire production records of the Edison company yet exist at the Edison National historic Site, but they are no longer available to researchers, after a well publicized series of thefts from the Edison archives. The NHS is in the process of digitizing their records so that the digital files may be made available to researchers.

Even the jobbers complained bitterly because of the lack of availability of mechanical parts for the model A Diamond Disc machines.

Factory 30, by the way, was The Jamestown Mantle Company, which shipped its first Hepplewhite cabinets in 1920, although it was building S-275, and C-250 cabinets cabinets by 1916.

The two grilles used on production H-19 machines:

Thank you V. Your depth of knowledge is amazing. You make a good, logical argument for why they would not use unobtainium in place of new production. Excellent news for me as I can in good conscience now sell the oxidized reproducer and buy the standard one. This history is so fascinating.

According to Frow's book the plating was nickel so I guess he must be wrong. And according to Steve Medved, the reproducer below is antique oxidised copper.

There are errors in Mr. Frow's book, I'm afraid. Minor ones, generally, of the sort that creep into any work of such magnitude. Far fewer than those in "Tinfoil to stereo, though, and they do not substantially impair the usefulness of his excellent book.

The Hepplewhite was trimmed in gold. Mr. Uffda's example has a gold collar on the horn and a gold speed control, and doubtless gold on the brake, which unforunately is not pictured. Every one of the many examples that I've owned save one were trimmed in gold. The one that was trimmed in nickel had a late mechanism sans speed control, and with the late style governor. I assumed that it might have been shipped in 1927 , after all bets for standardisation were off, until the former owner told me that he had installed the mechanism from a London Upright in a spare Hepplewhite cabinet.

Here are a few examples of more-or-less "as found" H-19's as found on the web:









The oxidised reproducer that you picture is Gumetal, not oxidised copper. This finish was used on a number of late machines, notably the Baby Console BC-34, the late examples of the William and Mary upright and console, the New Edison long playing machines, a very few of the last Chippendale consoles and uprights, and the Edisonic machines.

Oxidised Copper parts for Edison machines show a pattern, like that on the brightwork of an Idelia or an Opera, not the subtle highlights of the 1920's antique bronze (edit), or gunmetal or "Oxydized" finish.

Note that Edison also used a patterned finish which was called "gunmetal" on the oak Amberola 1. The finish was very much like the patterned "Oxydised Copper" used on the mahogany machines, but was in shades varying from a pale greyish lemon to beep grey-black, rather than the rich copper/blue-black combination which is more common.

(edited for clarification)

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The H-19 was a budget machine with gold plated hardware.
Single spring motor. Played up to 3 records per winding.
The turntable hub gear is dissappointing to me, as it is only a sandwitched beveled gear.
Tendency is for that gear to go bad. It drives the governor.
Nice looking machine, though, and, plays well.
Bill Cahill