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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding Crystal Cartridge
PostPosted: Oct Sun 02, 2016 6:56 pm 
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Joined: Jul Sat 23, 2016 6:58 am
Posts: 358
Location: La Quinta, CA
Also, what do you guys think about using the kccc cartridge replacement kit from voice of music?


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding Crystal Cartridge
PostPosted: Oct Sun 02, 2016 8:11 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2478
Location: Haledon NJ USA
SakanaLuvr wrote:
Also, what do you guys think about using the kccc cartridge replacement kit from voice of music?


Way too much output for this application. The GE cart puts out only about 1/10 of a volt, the kit puts out 1.3 volts. For the most part, you can't replace a magnetic cartridge with a ceramic cartridge.


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding Crystal Cartridge
PostPosted: Oct Sun 02, 2016 8:25 pm 
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Joined: Jul Sat 23, 2016 6:58 am
Posts: 358
Location: La Quinta, CA
Ken Doyle wrote:
SakanaLuvr wrote:
Also, what do you guys think about using the kccc cartridge replacement kit from voice of music?


Way too much output for this application. The GE cart puts out only about 1/10 of a volt, the kit puts out 1.3 volts. For the most part, you can't replace a magnetic cartridge with a ceramic cartridge.


Sorry Ken. I am working on a Zenith 5R086 at the same time, which does have a crystal cartridge. I am having difficulty finding a donor Crystal cartridge that I can scavenge the Crystal from in order to rebuild the Zenith cartridge. I purchased some very inexpensive ceramic cartridges, and thought I might give them a try. I attached a photo of the ceramic element. Failing that, I was wondering about using the kccc kit from voice of music, and just wanted a general opinion on what you guys thought about that kid


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding Crystal Cartridge
PostPosted: Oct Sun 02, 2016 8:47 pm 
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Location: Haledon NJ USA
I believe that kit should work just fine on the Zenith as long as you can get the tracking force down a bit without effecting the operation of the end-of-record trip mechanism.


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding Crystal Cartridge
PostPosted: Oct Sun 16, 2016 3:06 am 
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Joined: Jul Sat 23, 2016 6:58 am
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Location: La Quinta, CA
Anybody ever tried this setup?


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding Crystal Cartridge
PostPosted: Oct Tue 18, 2016 1:01 am 
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Location: Mount Arlington, NJ 07856
Seems like too simple of a solution but I'm not knocking the idea at all. It's a great idea and definitely worth a try. Maybe cement it in place with a few tiny dabs of silicon rubber that could be easily removed if it doesn't work.

Quote:
kccc cartridge replacement kit
What is this kit? I can't find it anywhere on the voice of music web page. Can someone post a link?


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding Crystal Cartridge
PostPosted: Oct Tue 18, 2016 1:27 am 
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Posts: 358
Location: La Quinta, CA
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turntable-Phono ... SwQjZXP-eo


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding Crystal Cartridge
PostPosted: Oct Tue 18, 2016 5:59 am 
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Joined: Jul Sat 23, 2016 6:58 am
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Location: La Quinta, CA
tunerman wrote:
Seems like too simple of a solution but I'm not knocking the idea at all. It's a great idea and definitely worth a try. Maybe cement it in place with a few tiny dabs of silicon rubber that could be easily removed if it doesn't work.

Quote:
kccc cartridge replacement kit
What is this kit? I can't find it anywhere on the voice of music web page. Can someone post a link?




http://www.thevoiceofmusic.com/catalog/ ... s=78%20rpm


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding Crystal Cartridge
PostPosted: Oct Fri 21, 2016 5:20 pm 
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Location: Mount Arlington, NJ 07856
Oh, thanks. Now I can find it and in fact, I had purchased one of these a few years ago but not from VM. I don't recall where but also had an idler rebuilt from the same guy. A very nice older gentlemen.
On my Zenith 7S681 I could only get the weight down to about 8grams (the max). Still a bit too heavy I think but works well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF_i11bg7lM


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding Crystal Cartridge
PostPosted: Oct Sat 22, 2016 5:22 am 
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Joined: Jul Sat 23, 2016 6:58 am
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Location: La Quinta, CA
tunerman wrote:
Oh, thanks. Now I can find it and in fact, I had purchased one of these a few years ago but not from VM. I don't recall where but also had an idler rebuilt from the same guy. A very nice older gentlemen.
On my Zenith 7S681 I could only get the weight down to about 8grams (the max). Still a bit too heavy I think but works well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF_i11bg7lM


Very, very cool!


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding Crystal Cartridge
PostPosted: Oct Sat 22, 2016 11:47 pm 
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Joined: Jul Sat 23, 2016 6:58 am
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Location: La Quinta, CA
The results of putting a $1.79 dual ceramic cartridge internals into the Astatic L26 cartridge were surprisingly good. The tone is almost as good as a new pfanstiehl P 51-3. The volume is decent. Not as good as the P51-3, but a very inexpensive fix, which keeps the player visibly accurate.

Jeff


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding Crystal Cartridge
PostPosted: Oct Sun 23, 2016 12:48 pm 
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Location: Mount Arlington, NJ 07856
Wow that's great! How did you end up bonding the various parts together? Especially where the stylus holder meets the crystal?


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding Crystal Cartridge
PostPosted: Oct Sun 23, 2016 3:08 pm 
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Joined: Jul Sat 23, 2016 6:58 am
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Location: La Quinta, CA
tunerman wrote:
Wow that's great! How did you end up bonding the various parts together? Especially where the stylus holder meets the crystal?


I put a tiny drop of gorilla glue on the rubber piece holding the very end of the ceramic rods. I also put a very tiny dab of silicone RTV on the rubber piece closest to the terminals. I have a feeling that a more rigid connection to the stylus holder would probably increase the volume. I also suspect that this setup will only work with an amplified system. I am working on a GE model 12 now. I will experiment with it as well.

Jeff


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding Crystal Cartridge
PostPosted: Oct Sun 23, 2016 3:30 pm 
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Location: Mount Arlington, NJ 07856
Quote:
I also suspect that this setup will only work with an amplified system.

Do you mean inserting a preamp ahead of the power amp?


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding Crystal Cartridge
PostPosted: Oct Sun 23, 2016 9:01 pm 
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Joined: Jul Sat 23, 2016 6:58 am
Posts: 358
Location: La Quinta, CA
tunerman wrote:
Quote:
I also suspect that this setup will only work with an amplified system.

Do you mean inserting a preamp ahead of the power amp?


That is my impression, based upon the comments of some more seasoned gentlemen in this forum. Somewhere, I saw a schematic for a very basic preamp, which only involved a couple components. I wish I could still find that schematic.

Jeff


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding Crystal Cartridge
PostPosted: Oct Mon 24, 2016 5:29 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3045
Location: Québec!
Hi Jeff,

A more rigid connection to the "stylus holder" will indeed increase output, to the expense of
exaggerated record surface noise. A softer bond would filter the high frequency noise and also
protect the ceramic element from breakage should one bump accidently the stylus, say on the side
of the record or drop the tonearm.

Some stylus replacement for early Astatic such as the L-71, L-26, etc. were molded in nylon to increase compliance
and lower noise.They were quite effective in that area.

Syl


SakanaLuvr wrote:
tunerman wrote:
Wow that's great! How did you end up bonding the various parts together? Especially where the stylus holder meets the crystal?


I put a tiny drop of gorilla glue on the rubber piece holding the very end of the ceramic rods. I also put a very tiny dab of silicone RTV on the rubber piece closest to the terminals. I have a feeling that a more rigid connection to the stylus holder would probably increase the volume. I also suspect that this setup will only work with an amplified system. I am working on a GE model 12 now. I will experiment with it as well.

Jeff


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding Crystal Cartridge
PostPosted: Oct Mon 24, 2016 5:42 am 
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Joined: Jul Sat 23, 2016 6:58 am
Posts: 358
Location: La Quinta, CA
Syl,

Thanks for the info. I would like to try replacing the stylus as well. Can you make a recommendation.


Jeff


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding Crystal Cartridge
PostPosted: Oct Mon 24, 2016 2:03 pm 
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Posts: 451
Location: Mount Arlington, NJ 07856
Quote:
Quote:
Do you mean inserting a preamp ahead of the power amp?
That is my impression, based upon the comments of some more seasoned gentlemen in this forum. Somewhere, I saw a schematic for a very basic preamp, which only involved a couple components. I wish I could still find that schematic.
Using the Pfanstiehl 911 type cartridge which is part of the KCC-C kit discussed earlier, I found it had adequate sound output for my Zenith which probably had a 3V cartridge originally. The output of the 911 is rated about 1.3 volts and I do have to say the volume is noticeably lower than the radio. But I do find the radio to be a little too loud and keep the volume very close to the CCW position when listening to it. When playing records, I do have to turn the volume up more but I find there is plenty of volume available.
Quote:
Thanks for the info. I would like to try replacing the stylus as well. Can you make a recommendation.
I don't know much about these stylus but I know there are two types. One being straight and the other bent like a S shape. I've read in places that you can use either one but then I ran across a web page somewhere that said you shouldn't interchange them. I don't recall the reason for this. So its probably best to stick with the type that was in there assuming it wasn't switched out. Check eBay, I purchased a couple NOS a while back. Your question was intended for Syl. Maybe he knows better.

This post here shows a couple simple preamp circuits. Unfortunately you need a log in to see them but there is an interesting discussion on this topic. I thought I had a login but cannot seem to find my credentials.
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/question-on-ceramic-cartridge-output.529564/


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding Crystal Cartridge
PostPosted: Feb Tue 21, 2017 10:28 pm 
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Joined: Jul Wed 17, 2013 12:34 am
Posts: 344
Location: Mesa, Arizona
SakanaLuvr wrote:
Ken Doyle wrote:
SakanaLuvr wrote:
Also, what do you guys think about using the kccc cartridge replacement kit from voice of music?


Way too much output for this application. The GE cart puts out only about 1/10 of a volt, the kit puts out 1.3 volts. For the most part, you can't replace a magnetic cartridge with a ceramic cartridge.


Sorry Ken. I am working on a Zenith 5R086 at the same time, which does have a crystal cartridge. I am having difficulty finding a donor Crystal cartridge that I can scavenge the Crystal from in order to rebuild the Zenith cartridge. I purchased some very inexpensive ceramic cartridges, and thought I might give them a try. I attached a photo of the ceramic element. Failing that, I was wondering about using the kccc kit from voice of music, and just wanted a general opinion on what you guys thought about that kid


Are these the "guts" from one of those cheap $2 Chinese cartridges on eBay?

_________________
.....Richard.....


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding Crystal Cartridge
PostPosted: Feb Wed 22, 2017 6:40 am 
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Joined: Jul Sat 23, 2016 6:58 am
Posts: 358
Location: La Quinta, CA
Yes Richard. The red and black ones. I hope you have a steady hand and gentle touch, as the ceramic rods are pretty fragile. I ordered several to start.

Jeff


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