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 Post subject: Zenith (VM) Changer 12" record button Scraping
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 2:25 am 
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Joined: Jan Sun 24, 2016 8:13 pm
Posts: 10
I'm sure this has been discussed before but I couldn't find anything because I'm likely using the wrong terms. Just finished cleaning up a late 60's VM changer, installed a "new" idler wheel and everything works except the 12" record detector button is scraping on each turn when a record is on the table. No scraping when rotating without a record. Its a fairly noticeable scraping sound. Is that normal and is there something I can adjust to reduce?

Thanks all!


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith (VM) Changer 12" record button Scraping
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 2:48 am 
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Joined: Sep Thu 20, 2007 3:16 am
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Location: Winter Park, Florida
I think you mean the 10" sensor button.

The only times I have experienced this is when one or both of the center bearing washers are missing causing the turntable platter to ride too low.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith (VM) Changer 12" record button Scraping
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 3:16 am 
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Joined: Jan Sun 24, 2016 8:13 pm
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The bearing stackup is good. I think the long "spring" under the platter was a little warped. When It was pushed down, the spring was at an angle to the platter. I worked it a little so that it is parallel to the platter when pushed. All good with the scraping now. And right with the 10" sensor. I do minor repairs and restorations and have working on a few vintage changers over the past couple of years. This is the first VM that I completely stripped down and reassembled.

Problem I have now is that the changer is not sequencing properly. Record drops but arm never moves over and plays. Changer goes into an immediate reject. Only immediate issue I see is that the pin that the 10" sensor should hit never rises up high enough during a cycle to be pushed down. I'm guessing I have something slightly off on the reassembly. Works fine in manual but won't start in automatic. Any ideas?


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith (VM) Changer 12" record button Scraping
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 5:59 am 
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Joined: Jan Sun 06, 2008 3:28 am
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Location: Richmond, VA
if the trip link assembly isn't positioned just right when you reassemble the cycling mechanism, it won't engage the trip lever on the cam wheel. Sometimes it takes a couple of tries to line it up correctly as it may slip out of position when re-installing the cycling mechanism.


Here's is a step-by-step thread that may help:

http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=186294

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith (VM) Changer 12" record button Scraping
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 9:00 pm 
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Joined: Jan Sun 24, 2016 8:13 pm
Posts: 10
Thanks and I'll give that a try tonight. Also ordered the service manual last night which should help!


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith (VM) Changer 12" record button Scraping
PostPosted: Dec Sat 09, 2017 3:36 pm 
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Joined: Jan Sun 24, 2016 8:13 pm
Posts: 10
Thanks for the help folks, after 5 or 6 more disassembly and re-assemblies I have the table working pretty well. One last question, and this may be a stupid one. The changer works great with more than one record, but if I go to play just one record it won't bring the tonearm over to the beginning of the record, it just cycles off. Is that what it is supposed to do?

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith (VM) Changer 12" record button Scraping
PostPosted: Dec Sat 09, 2017 3:43 pm 
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Location: Richmond, VA
Are you letting the record drop? If you put the record on the platter and the record arm over the spindle, it will shut off. If you are placing a single record on the platter, leave the record support arm to the side and it should work. After the record starts playing, swing the arm to the spindle, and the player will shut off when the record is over.

Alternately, place the record on the spindle held by the support arm, turn the knob to reject, the record should drop and start playing.

Also when playing a single record manually that is already on the platter, don't turn the knob to reject, or it will cycle off. Turn the knob to on, and manually lift the tone arm to the lead in groove of the record. In that case, I think the support arm can be over the spindle.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith (VM) Changer 12" record button Scraping
PostPosted: Dec Sat 09, 2017 4:49 pm 
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Ed,

It works fine in manual. Problem is single record on spindle, support arm over spindle, knob to reject. The record drops, the changer cycles but the arm lifts up and then remains on tonearm rest. Works fine with two records.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith (VM) Changer 12" record button Scraping
PostPosted: Dec Sat 09, 2017 5:07 pm 
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Joined: Jan Sun 06, 2008 3:28 am
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Location: Richmond, VA
It's been a while since I worked on one of these, but my brain isn't firing on all cylinders this morning; I just can't think of the fix at the moment. It may be an adjustment in the support arm linkage, but not sure. Have you tried the search function at the top of the page? I think there is at least one thread on this specific issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith (VM) Changer 12" record button Scraping
PostPosted: Dec Sat 09, 2017 9:55 pm 
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Joined: Jan Sun 24, 2016 8:13 pm
Posts: 10
I can tell that the locater arm is not resetting correctly and not allowing the 7" arm to poke up through the chassis. I had it working correctly for a bit and it cycled correctly but now the locater arm is staying in the way again. I'll search on that problem and see if I can find something.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith (VM) Changer 12" record button Scraping
PostPosted: Dec Sun 10, 2017 2:35 am 
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Location: Richmond, VA
Generally, once the mechanism is cleaned and lubricated, and correctly re-assembled, it works reliably. However, every now and then you get a mechanism where someone tried to force things, resulting in something getting bent. Examine components carefully and look for a bent lever or linkage. It does happen, and can cause erratic cycling.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith (VM) Changer 12" record button Scraping
PostPosted: Dec Sun 10, 2017 4:54 am 
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Joined: Jan Wed 16, 2013 12:04 am
Posts: 1077
Location: 77001
A common reason for the changer to shut-off after
last record drops is that the record support arm is bent.

Usually the arm is bent up, because people grab the
arm from the front when they lift it to place or remove
records on the record spindle.

Here's a problem list from a V-M 1200 series changer service file:
Let us know what model your V-M is.
Hotwax


Attachments:
V-M  1201 changer.jpg
V-M 1201 changer.jpg [ 92.65 KiB | Viewed 49 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Zenith (VM) Changer 12" record button Scraping
PostPosted: Dec Sun 10, 2017 1:40 pm 
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Joined: Jan Sun 24, 2016 8:13 pm
Posts: 10
Its a 1287 Changer. I have the service manual. Don't thinks the support arm, I've looked at it pretty closely. Its not really that the last record fails to play, its that a single record fails to play. If I stack two or more it plays them all, but if I only load one on the spindle it won't play. It seems to be related to the 7" tab not being able to come up through the platter because the mechanism doesn't fully reset.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith (VM) Changer 12" record button Scraping
PostPosted: Dec Mon 11, 2017 2:33 am 
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Joined: Jan Wed 16, 2013 12:04 am
Posts: 1077
Location: 77001
RE: changer shutting off with one record on spindle:

Does this happen if you also engage the 12 inch index
lever with your finger at the same time the single
record loaded on spindle drops ?
Hotwax


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith (VM) Changer 12" record button Scraping
PostPosted: Dec Mon 11, 2017 3:23 am 
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Joined: Jan Sun 24, 2016 8:13 pm
Posts: 10
I tried with a my finger on the 12" sensor and it still does not work. If I hold the support arm slightly up it works. I noticed when 2 records are on the spindle, the support arm doesn't seem to immediately go all the way down after the last record drops. It moves all the way down after the arm has moved over the record. Very odd. I'm about to give up as I've spent way to much time on this one!


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