After having taken something of a hiatus from the hobby, I've recently purchased a Hi-Fi so I can enjoy my vintage records on something a little more authentic. I decided to go with a 1957 RCA New Orthophonic and found an example which had already been restored on Ebay that I finally did win and got it here just shortly after Christmas. It's certainly in nice shape, and as best as I can tell, the unit is just as the seller described having been thoroughly serviced sometime within the past year or so with new capacitors and such. Trouble is, while it sounds great and the changer cycles well, the platter isn't quite running fast enough. I noticed that my records sound like their tuned down a bit, in some cases more noticeable than others.

The 16 RPM speed will barely move the platter and it acts as though the idler wheel might be slipping but it was supposed to have a new one installed. The rubber all looks to be in good condition and looks like it would be making decent contact. With the speed decrease being so even and consistent, I figured it might be a lubrication issue. I'm just trying to figure out if this is something I can easily fix on my own. It would be kind of a shame if I couldn't since I already paid a substantial amount for it, assuming it would be in perfect working order.

I am assuming you have covered the basics on a slow or slipping turntable. Oil or dirt on the turrets, idler of TT. It could be a couple things.

If you are consistently slow and you have excellent grip with your wheels. I am thinking when someone restored your player they might have take down the rubber a bit on your turrets. Sometimes when the rubber old turrets are in good shape but they have small dent on the rubber from being stored in gear, folks will stick the turret in a drill and using sand paper on a flat surface grind-lathe the down rubber on the turret down some until it is smooth again. This will get rid of the annoying bump but will throw the speed off somewhat. If the dent is small and you only take a bit off you can usually get away with it but if too much is removed you can really effect the speed.

It could be another issue as well, especially if the speed seems to increase when the unit warms up. Does this player have an Alliance or GI Industries motor for the turntable? The Alliance motor has an open style bearing made from stamped steel that is very easy to clean the old oil-grease from. The General Industries motors have a very heavy duty cast bearing that are sealed units. The problem with the GI bearings is it is very difficult to remove the old oil-grease from them. This old oil and grease becomes very thick when cold and usually upon start up the motor will run slow and cause the issues you describe. If you have one of the GI motors I recommend buying some carb cleaner with the red straw. Use the straw on the can and insert it in the oil fill hole on the bearing. Flush the bearing as best you can with the carb cleaner. I also tip and turn the brass looking oil lite bearing race in different directions to aid in flushing the different areas of the inside of the housing. Then I use compressed air and an air gun with a reduced rubber tip to blow through the bearing so to remove all traces of the carb cleaner, old oil and to dry out the wick inside. Then re-oil the bearing. The above method seems to work best with these GI motors but I dislike them and highly prefer the Alliance motors. I actually replace the GI motors with Alliance motors in all my personal players that have had GIs from the factory.

Ritchie, speed slowdowns on these New Orthophonics are usually caused by old oil inside the speed turrets. Lift up on them one at a time, insert a medium sized flat screwdriver underneath them, and twist the screwdriver and the turrets will pop up and can be removed by hand. Pour a bit of lacquer thinner on a Q-tip or pipe cleaner (depending on whether you have the GI or Alliance system) and clean the inside of each turret thoroughly. Clean them two or three times to be sure all the old black dried oil is gone. Also, clean the four turret holding posts with lacquer thinner the same way. Spray the outside of the turrets with household degreaser, and wipe dry with a dry rag. Re-oil each turret post by dipping a Q-tip in oil and shake the excess off into a wastebasket. Install the turrets, and rap the top of each one with the rubber end of a screwdriver to secure them. Be sure you don't mix up the order of the turrets as you do this procedure.

I'm not sure how to tell the difference between the two motors as I haven't dealt with them before, but here's the motor in mine:



Idler, turrets, etc:



I would think they might have sanded the idler wheel if any. The rubber on the turrets look too good to me.

Yours is an Alliance motor/turret system. You will need pipe cleaners to clean the inside of these turrets.

From left to right in your picture, the turrets are 16, 33, 45 and 78 rpm.

After removing the turrets, spin the motor shaft by hand to see how freely it moves. If it doesn't move very good, the motor will have to be disassembled, top and bottom bushings cleaned with lacquer thinner, and both bushings re-oiled. If the player is slow on all speeds, that may very well be the problem.

Indeed, the motor shaft feels like it has more resistance than the turrets, however it may seem exaggerated to me since it's such a small shaft and thus, getting a hold of it is more difficult. A good spin will send it on a couple of free rotations of it's own. Nothing like the turrets, but again, the smallest is the hardest to spin. I'll have to pick up some supplies and get cracking on this. Something I have noticed is that compared to what I see in photos on the restoration work you did on your SHF-8, the rubber around the idler on mine looks much thinner than your's. This sort of makes me wonder if someone had simply sanded down the idler rather than the turrets, as bastardbus had mentioned, and created a smaller diameter idler that would affect the speed across the board.

SHF-8

My 7-HF-5

From those last two pics you posted the above motor is a GI and yours is an Alliance. It is almost impossible to tell from photos if your rubber is any good. It can dry and crack but it can also look good but still be hard and glazed. From the photo it does seem that the upper steel sections of your turrets are polished from a lot of use. I would roughen those surfaces up a bit with some emery cloth or fine grit sand paper 220-320 ish. See how the rubber feels on the idler and the turrets as well. Does it feel somewhat soft like it gives when squeezed or does it seem hard and like it has a glaze to it. Again from the pictures it almost does seem like the rubber on your turrets is different sized. The rubber sections should all be the same on the turrets of a Alliance motor. If you have a caliper you can check and compare the sizes.

I think finding out what the real issue is depends on whether your motor is consistently slow all the time or it varies from time to time. Old oil-grease in the unit or dirty idler-turrets will cause the speed to vary. If the turrets have been sanded down you will have a constant steady slow speed.

I learned something today! Thanks guys..........GREG

The Alliance idler doesn't have as thick a rubber as the GI idlers have. Remove the idler and clean it, dry it, and clean and lightly oil the shaft that the idler rides on.

You can get rid of the glaze on both your idler and all four turrets using this procedure. Insert the metal end of the turrets or the idler shaft in a variable speed drill. Take a piece of 400 grit sandpaper and back it with an old credit card. Hold the turrets/idler squarely against the sandpaper on the edge of a counter, and sand them down a bit. As long as the turrets or idler are not cracked, this procedure works just fine, and you can even remove indentions in the turrets using this procedure. I have done this many, many times and it has never affected the speed. I have saved my customers countless $$$ by using this procedure. The 78rpm turret can't be done unless you have a half-inch variable drill.

The good news is, the Alliance idler is the cheapest one you can buy. Gary at VM has them available for $15. Recapped turrets are available for $18 each.
http://www.thevoiceofmusic.com

I have never tried turning down the tires on turrets, but it seems to me, that decreasing the diameter of the tire would increase speed, rather than decrease it, providing that the size is not decreased to the point of slippage. Conversely, decreasing the diameter of the metal part of the turret, or of the motor shaft, would decrease the speed. N'est–ce pas?

It might increase the speed just a tad, but it isn't noticeable. I've done this procedure to over 50 of the RP-205 changers with incredible success. It's rare that I ever have to order a new turret anymore.

My post was in response to that of bastardbus, who stated that reducing the tire size would decrease the speed.

Yes, you are correct it would speed up the TT not slow it down. In my haste in posting I got that reversed.

I went over everything pertaining to the motor and turrets this morning. making sure everything was cleaned and the proper areas lubricated and such. The bearings in the motor seemed to be pretty clean already, but I cleaned it and re-oiled it anyway. I made sure the metal portions of the turrets were roughed up just a bit to make sure they made good contact, same with the rubber which is nice and tacky and shouldn't be slipping at all. I even checked over the bearings for the turntable. Everything seems like it should be in order, but I'm still getting the speed reduction. It doesn't matter if it's been running 2 minutes or 2 hours.

After playing mine for about an hour or two, it dropped a 45 and starting playing it as a fairly erratic speed when all others had sounded constant and since I know everything is freed up in there, the only thing I can imagine is that the idler is bad. I mean, unless there's something electrical that I don't know about that could cause the motor actually get LESS power and run slower (I've never heard of such ) then I can't really find anything else that would be at fault. If the Alliance motor uses a smaller rubber, which mine is indeed smaller, I guess the diameter of it shouldn't be causing an issue but, would it be worn enough to slip so consistently? As in, there's no noticeable deviation ( usually ) in the constant speed of the turntable other than the fact that it's playing at a slower speed.

Just out of curiosity, I recorded my Hi-Fi playing Buddy Holly & The Crickets' "Not Fade Away" on both a 45 and an LP so I could compare the sound to that of an MP3 on my computer. At 45 RPM, we're looking at a 6% decrease in speed, 1.1 semitones flat. At 33 1/3, it's a 8% slow, 1.6 semitones flat.

Try shortening the idler spring about three rungs on one end and see if that makes any difference. Your idler spring is over 50 years old and I'd bet it is stretched a bit after being in use that long. If that doesn't help, a new idler will be needed. And, BTW, the metal tops of the turrets should be nice and smooth...not roughed up...and you can smooth them out with 0000 steel wool.

Yeah, I tried that just now and it didn't change anything. I had simply taken the "shine" out of the metal tops of the turrets as bastardbus had suggested before. Steel wool seemed to work fine on them. So where is this $15 idler? I looked on that site under "Alliance" but everything I saw was $25. I'm not too keen on how to find the right part on there since all I know to go on is my make and model and the fact that it has an Alliance motor.

Thanks for that link! I ordered my idler wheel tonight and I'll be sure to install it as soon as it get's here and we'll see if that will hopefully solve the issue. Just wondering, where would be a good place to find needles for this model? Is there a specific type of needle that works best? Mine was advertised as having a new needle and cartridge, although I'd swear this needle looks a little old to me. The white tabs on either side look to show some age. I had noticed that on some records, you can hear a bit more hiss from the needle when it makes contact with the record and it worried me that I might have a blunted tip that could damage my vinyl.