Hi all. I have recently acquired a semi-functioning Grundig console with phono. After I removed and refreshed the bound-up motor from the phono I re-assembled it and it works ok except that it plays too fast. Not Alvin and the Chipmunks fast but fast enough to know that its not right. Question is how do I adjust the speed? I am mostly interested in playing LP's at 33RPM which is where the selector is set. Also if anyone can tell me which needle/cartridge this unit uses that would be great. Sorry if these are easy questions but I'm rather new to phono repair. Thanks!

Amazing. All the knowledge and expertise I read about in this category and NOBODY knows how to adjust the speed on this phonograph? Looks like the new guy will figure it out on his own. But when I do I will let you guys know.

All the knowlege in the world can't determine what you did or didn't do to that changer.
There is no "speed adjust" on it, just the stated speeds.
If they're incorrect, it could be numerous reasons for it, and not knowing your competency of overhaulling these things makes the situation impossible to diagnose.

Worn/deteriorated rubber, out of alignment/improper assembly, bent assemblies, it could be a million things.

Just some gentle prodding thats all. Nothing but respect for the guys n girls here. You all have helped me a lot through several projects. I have more than a cursory knowledge base as far as mechanics and metal working goes. This player works properly in all respects except speed. It goes through the full range of functions whether in manual or automatic mode. Nothing appears to be bent or broken in the mechanism. Everything is clean and lubed. The motor was bound up with dried up grease. I got it cleaned and lubricated and now spins like a top. There is a little rubber wheel that is spun by the motor and in turn spins the platter. It is nice and soft and shows no signs of wear. Im operating the set at the proper voltage setting so that cant be the reason. My other turntables have strobes and speed adjustment knobs. This is my first operational vintage phono and I would love to get it right as the overall sound of the console is quite good IMHO. Thanks for all your advice. No more smart comments from me.. promise.

Was this unit made specifically for the US market, or was it brought over by someone from Europe? It may simply have a 50 Hz pulley on the motor, which would make it run too fast. Is it too fast at all speed settings?

The dial markings as well as the markings on the pcb are all in English. I can only assume that this unit was made for the US market. The turntable is fast on all speed settings. From what i can tell its approximately 10 rpm fast. I would love to post pics for you guys but my computer wont cooperate. I was able to determine that the needle for this unit is an AG3228. Not sure how the headshell comes off. I will continue to try to post pics.

English was routinely used on sets made for other markets, so that isn't a good indicator. Assuming the idler is on the proper pulley step for the speed selected, if it's fast at all speeds it can basically only mean that the motor is running at the wrong speed (unlikely) or the pulley is the wrong diameter. There isn't anything else I can think of that can cause this. Sometimes you'll see a label on the turntable that might indicate a 50 hz setup.

Judging by the needle part number, you have a Philips record changer in your Grundig. The cartridge and tonearm head are one integral assembly. The head should pull straight out. The stylus is a readily available turnover type, while the cartridge is somewhat more difficult to find, although I have a couple that I packed away somewhere a few months ago. It has been many years since I worked on one of those changers, but if it is indeed set for 60 Hz. operation, then the idler and motor pulley must not be aligned properly.

I was just now able to make out whats on the slightly decrepit tag on the underside of the changer. It is indeed set up for 50hz operation. Its an AG1025W. What now?

If the capstan is removable you might be able to swap with the capstan from another 60 Hz changer. If it is not removable you might be able to swap out the motor/capstan with one from another 60 Hz changer. If both of those fail you might just swap out the whole changer.

It's an AC motor so there is nothing you are going to do to slow it down. It's sync'ed up with the AC line. So you have to do something with the gear ratio between the capstan and the turntable.

Just some thoughts.

Curtis Eickerman

Theres no gears in the actual motor-platter mechanism. Just the motor output shaft with the 4 position pulley that engages a rubber idler that, in turn, spins the platter. I'm gonna get out my thinking cap and cogitate on this one. Thanks for the replies so far. I'm sure theres a simple solution. Maybe something unconventional. I have an idea. I will let ya'll know if it works..

Unless you have years to wait to find parts, change the record changer to another type. This will require an adaptor board, since the mounting holes will be different. Garrard changers of the '60s or '70s are probably the easiest to adapt, since mounting diagrams are available.

Sorry, I was speaking of "gear ratio" figuratively. The "gear ratio" is based upon the relative size of the capstan (you referred to it as a 4 diameter pully) versus the turntable. If you had a smaller capstan it would turn the turntable less for each revolution of the capstan. The effect would be a speed reduction.

If you had a 60 Hz phono motor that would fit it would likely have a smaller capstan and might work. The problem is that the capstan has to be matched correctly to the size of the turntable it is spinning. If they are not matched up you still have a wrong "gear ratio" and it still will be the wrong speed.

Curtis Eickerman

Thanks guys. I will see what I can do. Further updates as events warrant.

After much expirementation I was able to get the speed reduced. I used a 600 watt wall mounted light dimmer. I played several older albums (needle is original and I don't want to run it on my good vinyl) ranging from Foreigner to Enoch Light and it sounded correct speed wise. I did'nt notice any audible noise from the dimmer although there is mechanical noise transferring through the needle from somewhere in the changer. Theres a lot of build up on the needle that may be rubbing on the record to produce the noise as well. After an hour of playing, the dimmer, test leads and turntable motor were all no more than slightly warm leading me to believe this is a viable option. This was only an expirement to test a theory. I don't know that its a permanent fix. I still think its odd that theres a 50hz motor in this changer as my research has determined that this model (KS650-U) was indeed built for the US market which used 60hz then as we still do now. I did find two resistors in-line on both ac leads to the motor (1 per lead). The markings are long gone so I have no way of knowing what values they are. Any thoughts?

That should continue to work. Your phono motor is a "shaded pole motor" and (in bold)...Curtis Eickerman

I do not agree with using a dimmer on an AC motor of any type. The inductive reactance of the motor winding will generate very high voltage spikes in response to the pulses of a dimmer, voltage spikes that will destroy the insulation of the windings. In addition the reduced RPM will cause the motor to draw higher-than-normal current. Your motor will have a very short life under these conditions.

-David

You are right that it certainly isn't a highly recommended thing to do, but it can be done though I wouldn't recommended it either. The most likely problem would be the eventual failure of the triac dimmer if it wasn't designed to handle a load that had some inductance. I don't think the windings of the motor would go first, but it is possible.

Sometimes people resort to adding capacitance to bring the power factor into line to help keep the triacs switching near the zero voltage points to help keep the inductive spikes under control.

The bottom line is that small shaded pole motors are pretty tolerant. I've seen one that was mechanically stuck for months with power applied without overheating and killing it.

I still think the better answer is finding a 60 Hz motor/capstan and doing a swap.

Curtis Eickerman

Has anyone determined that this is an actual 50Hz motor? Alternatively, has anyone determined that the pulley and the idler are not just misaligned due to crumbling motor mounts and the changer is playing one speed too high or slipping back and forth between the correct speed and the next higher speed?

If this has been answered already, my apologies.