What does it take to learn this hobby?

I remember back in 2009 when I purchased a Zenith Porthole TV that I would have to learn a lot about TVs and develop some skills.

Back in the 1960's, I attended a Technical School studying Electronics Technology where we go some "book learning" on various electronic circuits including radios and TVs. We never worked on TVs or even troubleshoot them - just breadboarded circuits, plot load lines, learn how to use scopes, VTVMs, etc. We were the last class where Vacuum Tube theory was taught the entire first year. After, that it was all Transistors and ICs. Wasn't I a lucky dog.

So, when I purchased my Zenith TV I remember not being 100% sure about some things. One thing I vividly remember was I was not entirely sure how to discharge the CRT anode - do you simply ground the anode or should you use a special probe.

Since then, ARF members have been my tutors and taught me a lot. Still no where as sharp on circuit analysis as most of you - but this grasshopper is still learning.

So what advice do you give someone who wants to enter this hobby? My best advice is to get on ARF and ask a lot of questions.

Carl

My advice is to get good at radio restoration first. I was interested in TVs nearly as long as radios, but did not want to own or start on one until I got really good at fixing radios and understood the theory behind radio circuits. I sort of started studying TV circuits before I really had a vintage set and soon found one so cheap I couldn't pass it up (I was also sort of interested in what the owners wanted for it as it kept showing up at a meet, and changing hands before I got to it, until one day ) . I did not really understand much circuit theory when I started (and still don't completely understand all the ins and outs of the component level operation), but now have a very good sense of what most components do and where to look for the causes of most problems.

Good books like the ones De Vry used in the tube TV era are a god send for picking up circuit theory and good methods of trouble shooting tough bugs.

Tom C.

I can tell you exactly how I got hooked on this hobby:

I saw the following and immediately wanted a vintage TV like this:


Now that I had the "TV affliction", I started viewing ARF's obscure and arcane (at least it was to me) Antique TV forum. Read some threads but understood little.

I kept that picture of those mint Philco twin TVs and dreamed of owning one. I looked and looked but never could find a 1953 Philco TV. I really wanted a 1953 Philco and still have not found one. But later I saw these pictures on AuctionZip.com:


I went to the auction determined I was not going to be denied. And that is how it all went down - I got sucked in by those 1953 Philcos, and submitted to the siren call of that 1950 Zenith:-)

Carl

I got interested in television by age 7 watching the teechs repair our family tv.
However, that did not make me a repair man.
I got a NRI radio kit for christmas one year, and, started learning how to make things work.... It was a 5 tube ac dc min. tube radio kit that you built different things with, including an oscilator, metronome, am transmitter, mic amp, then, an am radio...
It was interesting. I actually made it work every time.
My technique was lousy, work shoddy, but, I was learning...

Fast forward to 1966. My first job at a tv repair shop. I soon found out how much I didn't know about rempairs.
I watched the other techs, slowly picked up, and, started learning.
Then, I started plugging in my repairs. A few pops, a bang, or, two, some smoke, but, I started learning what I didn't know.

I started reading theory books on circuits, and, stated expeerimentinnng on different troubled circuits.
Over the years I've become more profficient. I also learn by asking manny questions. When I find something doesn't work, I like to know why, what makes that circuit work, and, try to find out why something was done that way. Doesn't always work, but, it's taught me alot.
I'm no expert, but, after an actual 45 years of working, listenning, reading, looking at schematics, etc., I am good enough that I've solved some tough dogs such as my RCA 6T74, which is now only waiting for 3 resistors to finnish repairs, and, my 16" Admiral tv, which is nearly finnished.
I took some tips from Dennis, er, Mr. Detrola on a circuit I've had little dealings with, the video. That has now turned into a better knowledge of how that circuit works.
I'm fairly profficient at horizontal oscilators, tuners, hv, dampers, low voltage supplies, vertical circuits, horizontal output, and, audio.
Also on video detector, and, audio detector, and, some on I F alignment.
Not an expert, yet, but, I know enough that I'm fixing some tough dogs...
I've learned alot on trouble shooting for shorts, current drain, over loading, flyback problems, Yoke, and, focus problems, horizontl linearity, hum bars not always caused by power supply problems, etc...
Still more to learn. That never ends..
About the time you think you've learned it all, SURPRISE!!
I definately agree, learn radio, and, amplifiers well. Learn soldering techniques, circuit testing, adjusting, wirring techniques, safety precausions, etc.

What's the old saying? Do as I say, not as I do?
Lord knows I've made my mistakes.
Ever launch yourself with high voltage on tv? I did!!
Knocked me out for several min....
When I went flying, my head hit the basement wall....
Ask questions, trust, read, study, correct equipment helps, work, experiment, learn.
Learn to be profficient at reading schematics. I guarantee you'll need that.
It's rewarding to see these old gems playing, again...
I'm looking forward to finnishing my Admiral. It's nearly done. I have to finnish a variac repair, first.
Thanks go to all who have helped me along the way, including people here, John Folsom, Craig Knox, Gene Petuna, and, many others...
And, a little bit to the old Cahill nerver quit attitude. It got that RCA going.....
Bill Cahill

It takes lots of experience, the hands-on kind, in addition to book learning. I think it would be very difficult for anyone to get that kind of hands-on TV repair experience today on tube-type sets simply because very few people have hundreds and hundreds of sets in their collection. Back in the days when these sets were being repaired in shops, it took at least a couple of years working 40 hour weeks on the bench after graduating from a tech school for most technicians to get good at it and begin to understand all the quirks they don't tell you about in books or in the classroom. That would have involved working on a couple thousand sets, maybe more, depending on how many sets the particular shop expected a bench tech to complete each day.

Fortunately there are several really good TV techs here on the ARF who know tube sets inside out, and offer their advice to anyone with questions.

You never stop learning. Every set you restore teaches you something new.

The Guys in here teach me something every day. They're invaluable to this most arcane of hobbies.

That is very profound and has implications. I think folks like me who did not spend their career servicing Televisions are blessed to have access to experts like "Mr. Detrola". Now is the time for young folks to jump into this hobby as 30 years from now many of the experienced Techs will not be with us. Certainly someone trying to learn TV circuitry today will never be as accomplished as the pros here -- and when the young become the old "experts" for subsequent generations, they will not have the knowledge base as the pros we have with us today. The next generation "young" who would want to learn this hobby might find it insurmountable.

I want to thank all you guys for helping me learn about these antique TVs.

Carl

How do you think this arcane hobby will change when there are no longer people around who have "1,000" set knowledge? At some point it will be reduced to those with "10" set knowledge all gleaned from their personal collection. There will be a wealth of first hand skill and ability lost when the torch is passed to the next generation for whom this is not a means to bring back a part of their childhood, but a means of showing and preserving a piece of history. "Fixing" a television will become such a foreign term to people that our hobby will be that much more mysterious. Learning this hobby by restoring a set and asking questions to those who know is not just a means to an end, but by absorbing the knowledge of the 1,000 set(ers) you help to ensure that when next generation passes the torch they will be able to continue to preserve a piece of history.

vts1134, that is what I have pondered on for some time. There is a small group of hard core TV collectors who attend the Early Television Convention. I've never attended but I have watched the videos on You Tube and many I surmise will not be here with us in 25 years.

I think in the future when an antique TV is "found", it will be in even worst condition as the ones we find today and there will be very few really knowledgeable TV experts to help. That along with the problem of finding replacement CRTs, that there will be a continual decline of playable sets. Maybe more and more antique TVs will revert to being non-playable static objects with nicely restored cabinets.

Carl

Newcomers to the hobby should try to find a copy of the Sams Television Course, which was published in serial form as part of the Photofact subscription service in the late 1940s, and eventually compiled into a book. This has much circuit theory on the various sets of the era, including the RCA 630.

For color TV theory, one should find a copy of "Color TV Training Manual", also published by Sams; basically the color version of the one above.

I studied those two books heavily in the 1960s as a junior-high student, along with the excellent TV repair guide written by Art Margolis, which was published by Fawcett.

These books do turn up at swapfests from time to time, and are well worth having.

As for repair info on the old sets, they have many of the same problems as old radios; open, shorted, and leaky capacitors, drifted resistors, open coils and transformers, and so on.

Right now I am listening to FM on my Andrea T-VK12. It's the latest of 14 Televisions I have restored. I'm pretty proud of that, considering I couldn't tell a tubular from an electrolytic when I begain this endeavour 5 years ago.

What have I learned from this last restoration? Just because you've done 13 before, don't expect the 14th to be an easy layup. I got overconfident and made some rookie mistakes, even when I was doing superb restoration work. It didn't matter that I had restuffed all the tubulars and 'lytics perfectly - when I turned it on it didn't work, because i forgot to hook up 4 wires. Rookie mistake.

Thank God for the Pros in this room and elsewhere. Without them, I'd be nothing.

Indeed we will lose our original techs -- those who had a career fixing tube TVs -- within another decade or two. While we will never have that level of resource again, fortunately there are at least a few folks who have learned a lot from these guys and from the experience of fixing many tens of sets or a few hundred sets in a lifetime. I'm probably at somewhere between 50 and 100 sets restored now (mostly for other people) -- I've long since lost track. The hobby will not die, and the sets will keep on being fixed and restored.

I would not be surprised, however, if the interest in the hobby fades a bit. With the passage of time, there are fewer people who have first hand memories of the early sets. For me, the memory is that these old sets were the junkers available when I was a kid to experiment with and take apart to salvage parts for electronic projects. A couple more decades, and there will also be very few people with that experience.

Probably supply and demand will be sufficient for each other.

In any case, I agree that the only way to learn is a mix of book learning, forum perusal, and lots of hands-on experience. No substitute for the latter.

I've been messing about with televisions/radios/hifi since I was about 9 or 10, am now 36 so thats about 20 years worth of experience I guess. My day job was fixing TVs for a living, but now repair high end audio these days and repairing/restoring vintage TVs is a hobby I indulge in when I get time.
But very true in another 20 or so years most of the 'old hand' knowledge will be gone and there will be a younger generation who will have no idea on how to get an old TV set working again unless they have the drive to find out information, do research and read books etc otherwise these ageing TV's may very well end up being static displays and the sets that are currently working will fail eventually with time needing any ongoing repairs or maitenance, so some very good points have been made in previous replies to this topic. I have often wondered the same thing myself at times, lets hope that there is a younger generation to carry the legacy on when we've all snuffed it! Cheers Glen

My heart felt thanks go out to my od boss, and, friend-mentor, Craig W Knox, who taught me alot. Also, to Eugene Petuna, the other tech, who taught me many things, including DON"T DISCHARGE HV WITH YOUR BARE HANDS!

I hope to keep helping anyone wishing to learn with my experience, including that I learned the hard way.
Hmm.
When I was about 13 I was given a still playing 9T246 RCA with orig. stand. It eventually quit playing, and, went to a raster. I didn't know how to fix it, and, kept trying different tubes, to no avail.
I started puttering around with it, and, was pulling tubew with tv on to see what set would do. Stupid, of course.
Then, for sme dumb reason, I disconnected that wire coming out of that big metal box from the bell of the picture tube to see what set would do.. I lost my raster, and, heard something sizzling!
Oh, my!
Then, I remembered I had disconnected that rubber thing. I turned off the tv, and, unplugged it. I reached in with my right hand, to find, it, to reconnect it.
EEEYOWWW!
Found it...
Bill Cahill

NOW you tell me!

I've tried to learn this hobby, but the only thing I've gotten so far is a CRT tester, and that's about all i know how to do.. My hobby is only TV's and I've heard many say to start with an old radio.. Many also told me to get an esr meter.. Right now I have a local guy that I found on Craigslist restore my sets..