Hi All,
I've been having a discussion with Willie Bosco about whether all the 45 player parts were made in the US. I think they were, but are there any exceptions to this? They used three different motor manufacturers and two of them were American companies. Not sure about the third one. I know RCA contracted with Crescent to make most of the record changers in their factory in Chicago.
And what about the units sold in Canada and Mexico? Were they built here? I know RCA Victor had an International division but where was it located?

Phil Vourtsis
Author- The Fabulous Victrola 45

Phil, as far as I know, the Canadian RCA products used Garrard changers in them, sometimes BSR.
These being the full-sized changers of course.

As for the 45 players, I was always under the impression they were made in the Camden NJ factory.

Canadian RCA machines used BSR,GARRARD and COLLARO, at a guess i would say low end Canadian RCA consoles used BSR, the better quality ones had GARRARD but where COLLARO comes into it i dont know but my 1956 HF191 has a COLLARO changer.

The geneaology of anything branded RCA has always been ambiguous, due to the way the company was founded and tinkered with by everyone from department of defense to United Fruit. The story is so convoluted and perverse, even the Wiki is only the briefest synopsis. A lot of lying went on. For starters, "General" David Sarnoff was never in the military. He claimed to have received the Titanic's distress message but that's also very likely a fabrication.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sarnoff

So who actually designed, then built parts for and subsequently assembled RCA-branded 45 players is almost wholly up for grabs. Unless someone here knew someone who actually SAW it being done, given RCA's history of chicanerous deception. Surmising, in the near-post-WW2 era the US had more free manufacturing capacity lessens the likelihood of Asia or Europe as the source.

I see nothing about the 45 players that is consistent with anything but US production You don't need documentation to see that.

I was always under the impression that it was possible to determine exactly which plant and assembly line any RCA product was assembled on, including the day and shift, based upon being able to decode the various rubber stamped markings on the unit itself.

As a factory-authorized RCA service center in the 70's, the shop I managed occasionally ran into a problem with a new in the box unit where the distributor wanted to know who was responsible, and they were able to tell all the details from information stamped on the unit.

Finding the chart that decodes the markings at this late date could be impossible.

I have never seen any indication of any foreign made components in either RP-168 or RP-190 record changers. Made in U.S.A. is proudly displayed on many components or nothing at all on the rest.

I have always found the RMA codes to be somewhat honest. RCA 45 record changers were stamped with either 274, manufactured by RCA or 150, manufactured by Crescent. Crescent was in it from the beginning with the first RP-168s in '49. The speakers and cartridges were also RMA stamped. When people claim that their player has the original Astatic crystal cartridge, they don't have a clue. They all came with 274 stamped RCA cartridges, except for the later hi-fi models that used Sonotone 1P ceramic cartridges.
I have seen RCA built amplifiers used in 45 players use RCA, Crescent and Rola built speakers. The Rola’s have an RCA logo stamped on them but the RMA number 285 says that Rola manufactured it. I've seen Rola, Magnavox and Quam speakers in RCA consoles, all U.S. companies.

I have read that the RCA plant that manufactured 45 players burnt to the ground in '58. This prevented RCA from manufacturing their stereo 45 players due to come out in 59. If Crescent or some other company were building all of them then I don't think the loss of a single RCA factory would have been the demise of all of the 45-rpm record changers.

Where did you read that RCA had planned to introduce stereo 45 players? That is news
to me.I think they would have let the 45 player go out of production anyway because the
popularity of multi speed changers.

Well, stereo 45 records were starting to come out, so it makes sense that RCA would want to make stereo 45 players as well. I guess this explains, then, why the 45 only players weren't made after 1958. I bet RCA could have made, and sold, stereo 45 units throughout the 60s had this plant not burned.

It was during the 60s that I started collecting records, and initially they were all 45s. However, I don't recall any of these 45s being stereo. Maybe a few were, but I can't remember any.

I think the first stereo 45s were not released until the 1967 or 68. Long after the demise of the 45 players. I think the reason they went out of production was the failure of the 45 to displace the 33 LP.

-David

how would a 45 displace 33s? doesnt make sense.

You're right, it doesn't make sense, it never did make sense, but RCA Victor originally positioned the 45 as the ultimate format that would serve for popular and classical music. Through the mid-1950s they released albums of 45s -- you can find these for sale today -- and didn't even release 33s until 1950 or 1951

-David

I have a few stereo 45s from 1958 or so, including a 1959 a Roulette stereo EP from the Basie/Bennet album. Seeburg's first stereo jukebox came out in 1958, not that there were many stereo 45s available to put stock it with.

Ken D.

Stereo 45's were introduced in 1959 to the general public but were not widely promoted or
available. Also most labels made special stereo 45's for the then new Stereo jukeboxes, these
were only available to jukebox operators and some of them have the only true stereo version
of some of the early rock and roll hits.

Voice of Music and Arvin made stereo 45 only players (almost 45 only, it had 16 also), i have the voice of music model, it is quite rare.

When Gary Stork was still publishing the VM newsletter about 12 years ago, a former VM
executive that he interviewed said that VM did engineering development on the RCA 168 changer and manufactured some of them, I have nver been able to determine how factual that was and
have often wondered if the executive was confused and referring to the two speed VM 45
changer.

I have a Seeburg DS-160 from 1962. It plays stereo, but only the special 33 1/3 rpm 7 inch stereo records that Seeburg provided for a few years.

-David

I believe the 1958-1959 Seeburg model 222 stereo jukebox was 45 only.

Ken D.

David,
V-M came out with their Stereo 45/16-rpm changer in 1958. Small format just like an RP-190 only with automatic shut-off after the last record. Many RCA 45-rpm stereo recordings exist from '58 on up. The 45 players didn’t make it but the records lasted as long as the Lp.

Lp and classical freques always seemed to be threatened by 45-rpm records. I don't understand why because they could never replace an Lp for classical oldies. They were a good medium for popular music up to 5 or 6 minutes but not appropriate for the original oldies that tend to be much longer. Popular music on Lp was a waste of money and real estate. Pay for twelve songs and only like one or two? Not me. Mozart's Piano Concerto No. 21, Andante is one of my absolute, floor joist shaking favorites but so is Brenda Lee singing Loosing You. Viva the 3-speed record player.

The DS Seeburg plays stereo 45's just fine...it just switches on the "ear" speakers when the autospeed unit kicks in for a 33 1/3 record. Your cabinet speakers still play stereo at all speeds (provided it's a stereo record, of course...), and if you have external wall-speakers hooked up, such as the TC1 series, or the EBWC1-12's (like I have), they are in stereo all the time, no matter the speed. The DS autospeed unit (TASU-2, I think) had a relay that switches the "ear" speakers on and off to promote premium pricing for the stereo plays, which also took a special dual-pricing credit unit. You can re-wire your Directional ("ear") Speakers so they are on all the time, if you desire.

--Bob

From what I have heard, here is my run on it.
RCA didn't want a stereo 45 player. In fact, they didn't want to continue it as long as they did.
Stereo lp's were out, and, were starting to make Stereo 45's. I think Hit was the first with stereo.
The players were so popular that RCA was forced to keep producing the machines until 1964. At that point, they announced they would not be producing any more of the machines. Sad. It could have gone to stereo, and, even to automatic shut off. RCA never wanted to do that.
Actually, when Stereo lp's came out, the 45 lost some popularity.
But, a large part of the public still wanted the 45 records for compactness, and, the machines for portability.
Bill Cahill

The inherent design of the tiny 45 changers is technically the best reason they never went to stereo playback.
A tiny lightweight platter, along with that crude dual idler system simply makes too much vibration and noise for anything quality-wise to come from it.
Two thick-rimmed idler surfaces rotating at high speed certainly don't provide enough isolation from noise.
Metal-to-metal sliding idler arms in a sloppy mass-produced arrangement don't qualify for anything but a very casual listening arrangement.
There's simply no way to tune out the noise going on, without serious re-tooling.
Even VM ditched that dual-rim idler in its later full-sized 1200 series changers for a quieter single-rim idler.

It's all about isolation - from motor shaft to platter rim....

Take note of a high-quality turntable like the Dual changers with highly pliable thin idler drives and a heavy 7 pound platter, along with a slow-speed 4-pole motor with mico-machined motor shaft and bearings.
In THAT situation quality stereo playback is attainable.