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Aaron2
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Post subject: Reel-to-reel player repair/service resources Posted: Apr Sun 15, 2012 11:56 pm |
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Joined: Sep Fri 04, 2009 7:55 am Posts: 2184 Location: Mesa, Arizona
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Hi all, I recently acquired a mid-1960s Panasonic console that has a reel-to-reel player in it. The only issues seem to be that (1) it plays too fast -- even when set to the correct playback speed, the music and voices have that dreaded "Chipmunks" kind of sound, and (2) the output out of one channel is low. I'm pretty proficient at servicing radios, tube amps, and the like, but I've never touched a tape player. Does anyone know of any good online "how-to" guides? I could start by searching YouTube, but I thought if someone knows of a good website already, why reinvent the wheel, right?  Edit: Let me also add that the original owner told me he purchased the unit in Japan in the 1960s (he was a civilian employee at an American air base there). I've read elsewhere that the 50-versus-60-cycle thing can affect the speed at which the unit runs. Just throwing that out there, too!Thanks, Aaron
_________________ "If you write as good as you talk, nobody reads you." -- Lou Reed to a journalist, 1978
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Brett_Buck
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Post subject: Re: Reel-to-reel player repair/service resources Posted: Apr Mon 16, 2012 12:16 am |
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Joined: Aug Wed 24, 2011 4:35 am Posts: 1272 Location: Sunnyvale CA
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Aaron2 wrote: Edit: Let me also add that the original owner told me he purchased the unit in Japan in the 1960s (he was a civilian employee at an American air base there). I've read elsewhere that the 50-versus-60-cycle thing can affect the speed at which the unit runs. Just throwing that out there, too! That seems like a pretty difficult problem to solve, short of replacing the motor. Brett
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majortom
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Post subject: Re: Reel-to-reel player repair/service resources Posted: Apr Mon 16, 2012 1:39 am |
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Joined: Apr Sun 15, 2012 3:10 pm Posts: 335 Location: Buffalo, NY
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Aaron2 wrote: I'm pretty proficient at servicing radios, tube amps, and the like, but I've never touched a tape player. First thing I would do is evaluate / size up the rubber parts, especially since it's probably been sitting around for a long time. Worn/dry Rubber is ur worst enemy. A good source of rubber parts used to be Project Recorder Belt (PRB), in Wisconson I think. They may still be still around under a different name (?). Every shop always had a stock of PRB belts / idler wheels in stock, suspect they still do(?). I know you can find PRB cross references online. Set aside the hearsay for a minute, have you looked at the Nameplate / label, what does it say for AC input / frequency?
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arbilab
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Post subject: Re: Reel-to-reel player repair/service resources Posted: Apr Mon 16, 2012 1:56 am |
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Joined: May Sat 14, 2011 5:42 am Posts: 2574 Location: Ft Worth TX
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"Most" of the Japanese electronics I have encountered were built for 50/60Hz. Motor caps have two sections and motor pulleys have two diameters. Some even switchable from the front panel, but mostly internal conversion. Yours is undoubtedly configured for 50Hz.
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Brian McAllister
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Post subject: Re: Reel-to-reel player repair/service resources Posted: Apr Mon 16, 2012 3:59 am |
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am Posts: 2555 Location: Sarasota FL USA
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Panasonic tape recorders were not generally sold in the US in the mid '60s. At that time they had contracted to make recorders under the Concord name. If you can find an old Concord recorder that has a similar looking deck, it will probably have the parts necessary to convert the Panasonic (or probably National-Panasonic) to 60 hz operation. Generally the units purchased in Japan by US personnel included the parts necessary for conversion. I think it required a Motor pulley, but that was almost a half century ago and my memory gets hazy.
There is currently a Concord on eBay for sale for parts. Have a look.
_________________ Brian McAllister Sarasota FL http://oldtech.net
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Aaron2
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Post subject: Re: Reel-to-reel player repair/service resources Posted: Apr Mon 16, 2012 5:01 am |
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Joined: Sep Fri 04, 2009 7:55 am Posts: 2184 Location: Mesa, Arizona
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Thanks for your responses so far. Just to clear things up a little. This unit is capable of both 50 KHz and 60 KHz operation (probably because it was intended for American consumers). There's a switch on the rear of the unit that allows you to switch back and forth. It was correctly set on 60 KHz. Just to make sure, I switched it to 50 KHz to see how it would work, and it still sounds fast. It doesn't make any difference whether it's on 50 or 60.  Any other suggestions as to why it might sound this way?
_________________ "If you write as good as you talk, nobody reads you." -- Lou Reed to a journalist, 1978
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arbilab
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Post subject: Re: Reel-to-reel player repair/service resources Posted: Apr Mon 16, 2012 7:24 am |
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Joined: May Sat 14, 2011 5:42 am Posts: 2574 Location: Ft Worth TX
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The switch is for the motor capacitor(s). You still have to move the belt from the 50Hz pulley to the 60Hz pulley.
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Aaron2
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Post subject: Re: Reel-to-reel player repair/service resources Posted: Apr Mon 16, 2012 7:49 am |
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Joined: Sep Fri 04, 2009 7:55 am Posts: 2184 Location: Mesa, Arizona
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arbilab wrote: The switch is for the motor capacitor(s). You still have to move the belt from the 50Hz pulley to the 60Hz pulley. Geeze, I sure wish National Panasonic would've told me that ... it just says on the back, to "change the cycles," flick the darn switch! Anyway, I guess I'm going to need to pull this thing out of the console to accomplish this. I'll give it a try tomorrow. Thanks for the tip.
_________________ "If you write as good as you talk, nobody reads you." -- Lou Reed to a journalist, 1978
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codefox
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Post subject: Re: Reel-to-reel player repair/service resources Posted: Apr Tue 17, 2012 4:40 am |
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Joined: Nov Sat 27, 2010 6:15 pm Posts: 3603
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After all, no new tapes being issued, blanks expensive and hard to find. What's the purpose.
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Aaron2
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Post subject: Re: Reel-to-reel player repair/service resources Posted: Apr Tue 17, 2012 4:57 am |
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Joined: Sep Fri 04, 2009 7:55 am Posts: 2184 Location: Mesa, Arizona
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codefox wrote: After all, no new tapes being issued, blanks expensive and hard to find. What's the purpose. The purpose is twofold, really. For one thing, the unit came with a half-dozen pre-recorded tapes and about 100 formerly blank tapes that have music recorded on them (which I can reuse, of course). So it would be nice to be able to play the tapes properly. But also, I plan on selling this in the near future, and it's a whole lot easier to sell if everything works correctly.
_________________ "If you write as good as you talk, nobody reads you." -- Lou Reed to a journalist, 1978
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Elrick
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Post subject: Re: Reel-to-reel player repair/service resources Posted: Apr Tue 17, 2012 1:50 pm |
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Joined: Feb Thu 18, 2010 2:45 pm Posts: 407 Location: Bellingham WA
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I just wemt throught an old Akai M7 player/recorder and just love it. It sounds wonderful and is a nice presence in the living room. It almost feels like it's alive sitting there with the VU meters bouncing and the reels spining. Just to be sure, did you make sure there is no oil on the belt and capstan shaft? Just a tiny bit of oil can mess with the speed. But since you mentioned it played too fast that's probably not the problem. The Akai has two recessed front panel swiches for changing from 50 -60 Hz. They both need to be in their proper position, there was no mention of manually moving the belt. I beleive in the Akai they state that the switches need to be operated only when the player is running. Don't now if this information helps in your case.
I was able to buy about 40 pre-recorded tapes from the original owner who recorded them while serving in the army in Thialand. Amazingly most of them still sound great and it's been a lot of fun listening to his collection. Everything from Frank Sinatra to greatest hits compliations of the 50's 60's, and early 70's. Sometimes it's like being transported back in time and listening to AM radio top 40 station but these tapes are in stereo. New tapes can be found made by Quantegy which I think was formerly Ampex. Maybe after this is all finished you will decide to keep it and listen to the Rolling Stones. Keith Richards is one of my favorites, I'm currwently listening to his autobiography, very informative.
Also, is it possible you have the wrong sleeve around the capstan drive shaft? In the Akai there is a removable sleeve that is removed when playing tapes recorded at 7.5 inches per second?
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Brian McAllister
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Post subject: Re: Reel-to-reel player repair/service resources Posted: Apr Tue 17, 2012 11:04 pm |
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am Posts: 2555 Location: Sarasota FL USA
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Quote: The Akai has two recessed front panel swiches for changing from 50 -60 Hz. They both need to be in their proper position, there was no mention of manually moving the belt. I beleive in the Akai they state that the switches need to be operated only when the player is running. On that Akai, one "switch" is actually a mechanism that actually shifts the belt. The other switches the capacitor. If you are referring to the capstan sleeve that comes with the M-7, with the sleeve on, the speed is 7 1/2 IPS,. With it off, the speed is 3 3/4 IPS. There was an accessory capstan sleeve and pressure roller kit available that would convert to 15 IPS. The above all assume that the motor speed switch is set at the high speed. At the lower speed setting the tape speeds are half of the above.
_________________ Brian McAllister Sarasota FL http://oldtech.net
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oldmusicman
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Post subject: Re: Reel-to-reel player repair/service resources Posted: Apr Wed 18, 2012 3:43 am |
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Joined: Jul Sun 31, 2011 6:19 pm Posts: 1787 Location: Kitchener Ontario Canada (left UK 2007)
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Quote: After all, no new tapes being issued, blanks expensive and hard to find. What's the purpose I have a reel to reel deck as well, i guess the purpose is to play it  and know ive saved something else from a worse fate. I also have 2 eight track players, they are in 2 of my consoles and ive repaired both, why? you may ask as your statement above applies here, well because i have a stack of eight track tapes and again i saved 2 consoles from being broken up. With me its for the love of the hobby and when visitors come to the house they always stop and look at my consoles and say "we used to have one of those"
_________________ Zenith "The Quality Goes In Before The Name Goes On"
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arbilab
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Post subject: Re: Reel-to-reel player repair/service resources Posted: Apr Wed 18, 2012 4:14 am |
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Joined: May Sat 14, 2011 5:42 am Posts: 2574 Location: Ft Worth TX
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I didn't know this model was one with the external belt switcher I mentioned earlier. And yes the motor must be running when you actuate it. Also, worn belts may have enough slack for the switchover not to work.
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Ken Layton
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Post subject: Re: Reel-to-reel player repair/service resources Posted: Apr Wed 18, 2012 5:39 am |
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am Posts: 311 Location: Olympia, Washington
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DCinDC
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Post subject: Re: Reel-to-reel player repair/service resources Posted: Apr Wed 18, 2012 3:33 pm |
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Joined: Apr Wed 18, 2012 3:15 pm Posts: 3
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Check to make sure that the pinch roller is firmly pressed against the capstan.
if the tape is just speeding past the heads drawn by take up tension, it will do this, and it could cause your one low channel too.
Any old tape deck basically needs new belts, if not pinch rollers too. Then it needs all moving parts cleaned of old grease/lube and relubed.
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Tim Tress
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Post subject: Re: Reel-to-reel player repair/service resources Posted: Apr Thu 19, 2012 12:46 am |
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am Posts: 5763 Location: Beaver Falls, PA. USA
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The lubricant in vintage tape machines often turns to "glue" after several decades; this is particularly true of imported units. The pivot bearing on the pinch-roller arm is a frequent offender. If this arm is stiff, it must be disassembled and relubricated.
One low channel could be a dirty tape head, tape-monitor switch, or record/play switch.
_________________ Tim KA3JRT
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troydog
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Post subject: Re: Reel-to-reel player repair/service resources Posted: Apr Tue 24, 2012 5:40 am |
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Joined: Oct Tue 26, 2010 1:59 am Posts: 299
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Just seen this post so you might have got it fixed by now. I own a Panasonic also. Some of there units had no belts at all they use idler wheels. Only belt in mine is for the counter.
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ndiamone
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Post subject: Re: Reel-to-reel player repair/service resources Posted: Aug Sun 05, 2012 5:49 pm |
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Joined: Feb Mon 06, 2012 7:24 pm Posts: 146 Location: Silicon Valley after 14 yrs in L A
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Deleted.
_________________ 2 kinds of men/tape. Low Noise/Wide Range. LN=kind. WR=abrasive. Engineers=same thing.
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