Hi guys. I have never posted on this section before, but have a question. A friend wants to give me a early Victor Electrola from the late 20's or early 30's. The record changer on it is quiet exquisite. I know for most of you this is old news, but could anybody please tell me what version this phonograph is and what models it would be on. I know it is not the Victor II record changer, as I have seen that one (10-35). The friend does not know what RCA model this is, I don't ether, he is just giving me pictures of the set until I can get it in a few weeks. I do also know there is a radio in it as well, just don't know if it is a Radiola model 17,18 ect.
I know there is a arm on the left side that picks up the record after play and flings it into a leather pouch on the left side. I don't have a picture and have had no luck on Google yet. Thanks

Jon

Well, the first series Victor changer used a record arm, from which the un-played discs were hung. After playing the discs were ejected into a felt-lined wooden box. This changer was used in the acoustic 10-50, the 10-51 and 10-70 Electrolas, and in the 9-55 combination.

Here is the changer in a 10-50:


(Borrowed from ARF. My picture would not load for some reason)

A later changer was introduced in the 1931 season, a reliable unit with a moving hopper for records, which would change only 10" discs, though allowing 12" records to be played manually. It was used in the RAE-59.

A later "throw-off" changer was adopted in 1933 and used until perhaps 1937.

Post a pic!

Sorry about the incorrect photo. That machine was definitely NOT a changer!

Thanks for the response, it might be a later "throw off model" I still don't have a picture, but I found a example of exactly the same record changer. The cabinet is different than this one though. same mechanism and tone arm.

Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0Gf5AK1 ... re=related

Jon

Wow- certainly not gentle, eh??
This one is definitely the "throw-off" type.
Cheers!
Joe

No, it doesn't seem like it is gentle on the records. I wonder if it does a lot of damage to them after ejecting? Does anybody have a clue to the specific record changer, I would like to dig up more info on this type.

That is the infamous "throw off" changer. As violent as it seems, a properly adjusted changer of this sort does not damage pre-war records, but the more fragile discs of the 1942-50 period will occasionally crack or chip.

I'd love to see your set when you can get pictures.

Vitanola, could you please tell me why they would crack or chip? I originally started in the radio hobby with mechanical phonographs. I had since turned to radio's and pre-war televisions, but am hooked again since this friend of mine will be giving me this type of set. I didn't even know they had automatic changers in the 20's and 30's, its quite fascinating how they function flawless being a mechanically driven mechanism. I ask about the later records; as to why they would crack because I also collect 78's and have about 200 or so for my phonographs which include: 1920 Edison, 1914 VV, 1920 Edison cylinder voice recorder, 1920 Lowry & Gobel of Cincinnati OH. I also have a few that are included in 40's sets. The others are hand cranks except for the voice record (a fascinating device all in it's self). What's even more strange is that I'm 23 and about ready to graduate college and find this stuff more interesting than say any video-game, my friends think I'm crazy.

Sorry to get off topic though. I will include pictures here in a week or two when I get the set. Vitanola could you please give me a year for this type of mechanism and what model it is? My record collection varies in eras, probably half and half 1920/30's and others after 1940. So it would not be a good idea to play newer records on this machine, those from the 40's,50's. Thanks for the answers and your help.

I am going to have to find a Victor II type record changer they used in the late 20's, that's a pretty cool mechanism, and the one you have as well is also very neat, I will have to eventually add these to my list of collecting.

Jon

Well, 78 records are generally made of a composition using shellac resin as the binder. The strength of a record is to a great extent determined by the amount of Lac resin in its composition.

Lac is largely produced in India. After Pearl Harbor, the Japanese Imperial Navy largely cut off trans-pacific from India, greatly limiting the amount of Lac resin that the U.S. was able to import.

At the same time a considerable demand for this resin existed in the Defense industries. In addition, phonograph records were not rationed like so many other consumer products, and so records ere in very great demand indeed, as the pockets of the war workers were full of money and there were few other things save War Bonds on which to spend it.

Shellac was rationed, though, so to meet the heavy demand for records the record pressing plants began using mixtures which were short on shellac, much like the biscuit mixtures used by the cheap labels such as Radiex back in the 1920's.

These wartime discs were much more brittle than their pre-war counterparts. The cheaper compositions were retained after the end of the War, because manufacturers found that the customers would still buy them.

Early Wartime pressings tend also to be pretty noisy, and prone to excessive wear when played on older machines with heavy pickups. Ny the end of the War, most pressing plants had figured out how to make an acceptable product even using short shellac.

In addition, at this time the prices of records (and all other consumer products) were strictly controlled by the OPA (Office of Price Administration), although record manufacturer's costs were subject to the considerable wartime inflation.

Record manufacturers found it necessary to cheapen their product so as to maintain their margins.

Another result of this was the practical demise of the thirty-five cent labels.

The price of a standard record in the 1920's was seventy-five cents .

The phonograph industry was largely revived from its nadir in 1932 by the introduction of the thirty-five cent celebrity popular record by Decca, Vocalion, Bluebird, and later OkeH.

Most of the better selling popular and dance records of the pre-war period were on these labels.

During the War, record manufacturers could sell virtually anything that they produced, and so most popular artists were moved to their label's full priced series (Bluebird artists were moved to Victor, Blue Label Decca artists were moved to the Black Label Decca "Personality Series", and OkeH artists were moved to Red Label Columbia.

After the War, the cheap labels were reserved solely for acts on the way up or down, new talent, and specialty stuff.


By the way, the Second Series Victor changer has been known even to Victor dealers as "The Record Smasher"

The first series changer is much kinder to records, and it is connected to the largest Orthophonic horn made by Victor.

Wow thanks for the Information! Perhaps I will go for a 10-50 down the road, I have not seen many pop up for sale. Would this "throw off type" that I have mentioned to discuss be the third type made by Victor RCA or is it another brand. I will send pictures next week. Please check back and thanks for the information so far.

Jon

That U-Tube demo was very enjoyable. The RCA set that was used in the LP demo was the model 381, from 1935, and the top of the RCA line for that year. It was also the last year for the 33 1/3 RPM turntable speed. There is one in my reception hall. I love it.

The RCA LP discs were a flop, having been introduced in 1932; a VERY bad time for a new record system. The one shown is he best sounding one I've ever herd. I have about 10 of them. Notice hat the changer on the U tube did not change the disc. It would be a cold day in hell when I'd put any of my RCA LP discs on ANY changer!!

The changer was known as the "Ejector" changer. Its first appearance was on a 1933 model; the 331, as i remember. The changer was used by RCA and other companies through 1938. All of the changers, except the 1938 models had magnetic pickups, as was seen on the 381, in the LP demonstration. The 1938 model year saw the last of the Ejector changer, and the beginning of the crystal pickup. I have one of the 1938 RCA model U-109; the top of the 1038 RCA line that year.

So then this type of changer will not eject 33's? I know I have at least a binder or two of victor 33's from that era, interesting. Also if I want to play 33's on my crank phonographs do I have to have a specific needle? Right now I have about 100 soft-tone steel needles for one or two plays then they need to be changed out.

WOW, Vitanola, THANKS for all that info!

I'm in my 30s now, but I've been collecting 78s since I was 8 years old, but I didn't know Most of the stuff you posted until now... and suddenly it makes sense of a lot of different trends I'd always wondered about.

Very cool, thanks.

- Bob

I should be getting the record player today. The owner did state that the tone arm and changer are gold plated? There is also a radio inside, I will tell more later today. Might even try a record out, the radio and player are working he said. He is also a radio/tv restorer, so I might not have to do much work at all. Be back tonight.

Hello all:
I've not posted much, but wanted to provide a link to my Victrola 10-35 with the much-maligned changer. The only record it's broken or damaged was when it was on the workbench, and I forgot to catch the record before it sailed onto the floor!
It's one of my favorite machines: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5o6cy78u-E

While you're there, please enjoy the video of another favorite of mine, the Capehart 115P2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBQWZ4Iw ... re=mh_lolz

Always enjoy the music!
Bob

Bob, thanks for the videos, I am baffled at yet another Victor record changer, this model must be before the throw-off changer. Very neat, and excellent sound quality. Have you worked on the type of changer I posted in this topic, I might inquire some of your help in May or June when I start on it. I do have the service notes for 1933 which should also help. Thanks

Jon