I bid and won a 1957 Admiral T102 tu-tone portable television on eBay recently. The seller stated in the auction description he knew how to pack correctly and the television would be double boxed. It arrived packed in a single box only with some bubble wrap but not much because the box was only slightly larger than the television. For example, when the box was taped shut the big chrome handle on top of the television was taller than the box but it was closed and taped down over the handle anyway. In addition the box was a used imported goods shipping box, not very strong, something Chinese goods are pallet shipped to retailers in and the seller had written "fragile" on it in several places. Apparently it was an unrated box as I could not find a weight limit or strength stamp anywhere on the box.

When the television arrived and I picked it up to bring inside there was the sound of lots of broken glass and loose parts inside. The picture tube is broken and the cabinet is bent so it's a total loss. The seller did apologize and expressed his disappointment about it and quickly filed a claim with the shipper which was USPS Parcel Post. The terms of the insurance claim application state if the claim is approved it will be for the original purchase price of the item only. The seller said he would refund my shipping cost separately because the settlement check from USPS would be sent to me.

How efficiently does the Post Office handle their insurance claims and about how long does the whole process take? Is a denial likely to happen here due to insufficient packing? Should I sit tight and wait it out for a few weeks to see what the Post Office is going to do? Should ask the seller for a return shipping allowance and return the television and file a Buyer Protection complaint or file Buyer Protection and see what they tell me to do?

Thanks for the read,
Greg

Hey Greg,
Don't wait for this guy to file a claim with the post office and you have to wait for them to make the decision that the shipper improperly packed the item causing its damage, by the time they make a decision, your time to file a claim or leave a feedback for the seller might run out. Send him a message telling him that you are entitled to a refund, and that you really don't want to wait for the Post office. If he says no, open a case with Ebay against him. It happened to me, and I was waiting and waiting, then the post office denied the claim due to shipper mispackaging. Don't hesitate.
Good Luck
Rock

Rock is right. He who hesitates is lost.

I agree with Rock. open a case w/Ebay.I had the same thing happen to me bought an Federal bakelite smashed to pieces
when i received it USPS snailmail. the guy wrapped it in a small a box and in old smelly carpet pad.
Doug

He lied outright. You have solid evidence to prove it.

HOSE HIM!

The shippers are totally out of the question in this case. There's no way they wouldn't deny a claim on the packing if it is as you describe. By filing a claim, he's just stalling and giving you the run-around to ultimately save his arse.

If the package was INSURED, then the postage is ALSO refunded IF the claim is approved. The cost of INSURANCE is NOT refunded. Just the value of the item plus postage. This is for a total loss. You would have to take the item to the post office for inspection. In this case, you can almost count on the claim being denied. I have had claims take as few as 2 weeks or as long as 6 weeks. So as other have said, OPEN A CASE WITH EBAY NOW..

And I have been stiffed once by waiting past the case or feedback deadlines and then having the claim denied.

Let eBay refund your money, let him deal with the Post Office!

X2

It's the sellers responsibility to get it to you in the condition it was shown and described to be in the auction. His dismal failure in that is his problem, not yours.

File a claim with eBay immediately. Don't wait, and don't let the seller stall you.

One other thing to keep in mind with USPS insurance.
It is primarily for the SHIPPER, not the person it is being shipped to. That is why if I am buying on eBay I don't buy the insurance for the seller at my cost.
My protection is the PayPal protection that would get me a refund, regardless of if the seller paid for insurance or not.

I buy insurance for me if I sell on eBay at MY cost, not the buyers.

My brother is a post master and I occasionally sell and buy on eBay and have asked him about the insurance and as has already been said it is only paid out for the actual value of what is shipped. They use a receipt to verify value. In this case it would be what the item sold for on eBay. And that amount is refunded to the shipper.
The guy is either lying to you or does not know how USPS insrance works.

My brother also said he had dealt with a little scam where 2 old ladies were pulling where they sent long stem glasses to each other with the intention of getting them broken and bought insurance in a large amount (something like $400 ) But since there was no way to prove the glasses where "priceless heirlooms" as they claimed they were denied their claim. They apparently tried it a couple times for the only reason of collecting the insurance. I know This has nothing to do with your problem but I thought was an interesting story and emphasises the fact they are going to investigate. And if it was not properly packed won't give him a refund. I hope you took pictures.

Bottom line,
File a claim with eBay.
The insurance is for his loss, not yours.

Tom

The seller has too file the claim, he paid the shipping and insurance. He has the receipts. I have a on going claim for damaged items for 3 months now. PITA thing when this happens, paper work involved.

Below is a copy of the damage claim application the seller sent me. I also thought the settlement check (if any) would be sent to the origination point of the shipment (seller) but the seller said that was not correct and sent me an attached file of the USPS form:

Article Number 03113260000218978799

Customer Information

Customer Submitting Claim:
Norbert T Wehrle

Customer Designation:
Mailer

Article Number:
03113260000218978799

Transaction Number:
1D820308G0399702L

Total Claim Amount:
$145.50

Shipping Date:
04/07/2012

Payment will be sent to:

Name:
My Name is listed here


Address:
My Address is filled in here

Package information

Postage Paid:
$30.76

Insurance Fee:
$2.90

Other Fees:
$0.00

Reason for Claim Category:
All Contents Damaged or Missing

Auction Name:
ebay

Auction Number:
180852147624

Transaction Number:
1D820308G0399702L


Description of Lost or Damaged Articles

Item #1

Description of Article
Item Type
Purchase Date
Requested Amount

1957 Admiral T102N Vintage TV set
Collectibles
04/06/2012
$145.50

Supporting Documents

DSCN0568.jpg
DSCN0570.jpg
DSCN0577.jpg

Description of Supporting Documents

damage to vintage, restored TV set, wrapped in several layers of thi bubblewrap

Mailer Information

Name:
NORBERT T WEHRLE


Address:
3426 TEMESCAL AVE
NORCO CA 92860-1456

Phone:
(951) 278-0201


Addressee Information

Name:
My Name is here

Address:
4255 WINDY RD
Again, my Address is here


*Customer Certification

Pictures:

You will NOT get the settlement from the USPS, because the claim wil be denied. YOU NEED TO OPEN A CASE WITH EBAY ASAP, or at least within the 45 day window. It may take a month for the USPS to respond.

Would it be correct to assume that with Buyer Protection insurance is really not necessary anymore unless the seller just wants to purchase it to attempt to cover his risk?

Thanks, Greg

That photo of the box is a slam-dunk for an fleabay claim. Leaves no doubt that seller was clueless about proper
packaging.

As others have said, don't drag your feet on it, file the claim; you can always retract it if you and the seller come
to an agreement.

As a BUYER, you would never pay for insurance for the SELLER. It is not needed. The seller must deliver what you purchased with no damage or loss. As a SELLER I always purchase insurance (my cost). I have NEVER lost an insurance claim. I also pack well and photograph the packing process! The only time I ever lost when an insured package was damaged was when shipped to CHINA. The Chinese Post Office refused to admit there was damage, even though the seller provided photos. Unless the foreign post office submits the proper forms back to the US (don't remember the organization) you cannot file an insurance claim. Needless to say, I no longer ship to China.

Seller was an idiot, he has no claim, you need to file now and get your money back.

Sigh. So many mistaken facts in this thread. Here's what my experience dealing with eBay sales shipped through the Post Office has taught me:

1) If the TV was NOT insured, file your claim ("item not as described") with eBay/PayPal immediately. The Post Office will not pay. eBay may require you to ship the broken TV back to the seller, but you will get 100% of your original payment back. You should try to convince the seller to waive having the TV shipped back, since it's obviously broken and obviously his fault.

2) If the TV was insured through the Post Office you have a choice. You can file the claim with eBay and let the seller deal with the Post Office, although you will have to cooperate with his claim and bring the TV in for inspection. But you can also file the insurance claim yourself and have the payment sent to you rather than to the seller. That's right: The Post Office does not care to whom they make the payment. (UPS and Fedex DO care: They will only pay the shipper.) If you file the claim, you take the TV in with the claim form and a screen print showing your PayPal payment and show it all to the postal worker. In most cases they will say something like, "Yup, it's busted all to Hell. We don't need it and will just throw it in the dumpster. Do you want the parts?" Honest: This has happened to me several times. In this case the TV has been recapped and surely has a lot of residual value even with the damage. That CRT is a common one and not hard to replace.

3) I have NEVER had the post office refuse an insurance claim even when the shipper did a poor job of packaging. If the claim is for a minimal amount ($25, I think) they will pay you on the spot. For larger sums it will go to a postal review somewhere away from the local office. (This is mostly to keep the local postal employees honest.) It will take about four to six weeks, but you WILL get back both the purchase price and the postage (assuming you paid for the shipping). In addition, if you are lucky you will get to keep the TV for parts.

4) If you do file the insurance claim yourself keep an eye on the clock: eBay/PayPal has time limits for filing a claim with them. If the Post Office has not paid you within 45 days of the date of the sale, file a claim with eBay to protect yourself. You can always drop this claim if (when) the Post Office finally pays you. But if you don't file the eBay/PayPal claim within the timeline you are SOL if the Post Office insurance claim goes wrong. Your eBay claim is a backup.

5) When all the dust settles the seller may ask you to cancel the transaction so he can get back his eBay/PayPal fees. If you think he's a jerk, you can deny that request and nuke him with - feedback and low DSR's. If you think he made an honest mistake you can agree to cancel and hope he's learned a lesson. If the sale is canceled you will NOT be able to leave any feedback.

6) DO NOT under any conditions threaten the seller with negative feedback. That is an eBay no-no and will cause eBay to deny your claim and otherwise hassle you. I had a case recently where a jerk buyer wanted to return an item because he didn't know how to use a ruler when he measured what he needed. He threatened me with negative feedback if I didn't allow him to return the item for a refund. eBay cleaned his clock and I didn't lose a dime.

PS: I have the same TV. So sad...

John

Wow! Lots of great advice here. Many thanks to all for taking the time to post your suggestions and practical experience.

I paid the shipping cost for USPS Parcel Post and the package was insured. Seller filed the claim and sent me a copy of the claim application he submitted on his end (copy posted above) which states settlement check will be sent to me if the claim is approved. He did mention I may have to take the TV to the local PO for them to inspect. At this point I would say the seller has not actually been a jerk yet but I am pretty disappointed he stated in the auction it would be double boxed only to receive it in this condition. I will keep an eye on on the 45 day limit for a Buyer Protection claim so I don't lose that privelige.

One additional thought. This is my first experience with a USPS damage claim but I have used Buyer Protection before for an item not as described. In the comments dialogue box where both sides are encouraged to resolve the case before escalating to Customer Service I wrote that it didn't seem fair to require me to pay for return shipping on an item not as described. Ebay agreed with me a sent me a return shipping label via email which I printed out and took to UPS. I then submitted the tracking number to eBay and when they had proof the item was returned they reversed the transaction and deposited the funds back in my PayPal account.

Greg