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tybox2000
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Post subject: RCA SHF-8 Gremlin strikes again... Posted: Apr Wed 25, 2012 2:56 pm |
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Joined: Mar Thu 22, 2012 7:18 pm Posts: 16
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I just remedied the "slowness" issue on my rebuilt changer by doing what bastardbus suggested and cleaning all the excess oil out of the motor and was testing it with an album and about halfway through the second song it developed a loud hum with no audio from the record at all. The tone seems to be around 100-150 hz approx. I previously replaced all the filter caps, electrolytics and 2 resistors that were physically broken in to 2 pieces. it has played for about 5-6 hours total with reliable power coming from the amp. If I turn the volume on 2 it is loud enough to hear it well on the other side of the room. (I think that is the P228 having 1 volt output but anyways.)
Looks like I'm gonna have to dive into the amp again and start replacing resisitors since they are about all that is left that is original. I can't see what else would produce the dreaded loud humming noise. Any tips on what it could be besides a cap? since they are all new and I was very mindful of my quality of work when I replaced them.
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oldmusicman
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Post subject: Re: RCA SHF-8 Gremlin strikes again... Posted: Apr Wed 25, 2012 3:03 pm |
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Joined: Jul Sun 31, 2011 6:19 pm Posts: 1787 Location: Kitchener Ontario Canada (left UK 2007)
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It is possible that a new Electrolytic has gone bad, or a capacitor has gone bad, its not that common but it does happen. Also it could be a bad tube, i have this issue on my HF-191, the hum is not as loud as yours but its there, i replaced all caps and it hums, i was told it could be a short in a tube. Going by the condition of the chassis on mine its very possible, i have a full set of tubes for it on order as they are cheap and readily available.
_________________ Zenith "The Quality Goes In Before The Name Goes On"
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dberman51
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Post subject: Re: RCA SHF-8 Gremlin strikes again... Posted: Apr Wed 25, 2012 6:03 pm |
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am Posts: 2311 Location: Boston, MA USA
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Sounds like the one of the cartridge wires has broken away from the terminal. Check all the wiring from the cartridge right into the amplifier.
-David
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tybox2000
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Post subject: Re: RCA SHF-8 Gremlin strikes again... Posted: Apr Thu 26, 2012 11:31 pm |
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Joined: Mar Thu 22, 2012 7:18 pm Posts: 16
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I double checked the wires from the cartridge to the amp and they appear good. I took the amp out and did some testing were I could see everything. I started the player and right away the humming began and by just wiggling the top of one the 50C5 power tubes I could get a different sound ever so slightly. They seem to be getting hot very fast also. Within 10 seconds they are almost too hot to touch. Never seen them do that before so I went on Eprey and bought a pair that tests good. They were cheap, so if this is not the issue I can look at the next option.........
These tubes appear original so i guess it's about time for a new set after 60 years. Let's just hope this fixes it cause i don't have a tube tester to know for sure.
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tubeAMP
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Post subject: Re: RCA SHF-8 Gremlin strikes again... Posted: Apr Fri 27, 2012 12:47 am |
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am Posts: 2756 Location: Gainesville, Florida
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vacuum tubes dont go bad with age as far as shelf life goes. could wear out emission material of directly heated tubes. you may have a tube socket issue if wigling the tube in its socket cause changes in performance. may be that hot tubes have extra current from under biasing resistor low fixed bias voltage or leaky signal capacitor feed to grid
_________________ CAUTION: Im no expert
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dberman51
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Post subject: Re: RCA SHF-8 Gremlin strikes again... Posted: Apr Fri 27, 2012 4:20 am |
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am Posts: 2311 Location: Boston, MA USA
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Are you saying that the hum began even before the tubes warmed up? That is a different, more serious problem.
-David
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tybox2000
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Post subject: Re: RCA SHF-8 Gremlin strikes again... Posted: Apr Sun 29, 2012 4:06 am |
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Joined: Mar Thu 22, 2012 7:18 pm Posts: 16
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The hum starts when the audio would usually start, at approx. 5 seconds after I turn the changer on. I did a pretty good inspection of all the solder points along the tube sockets and everything appears great. I have all new caps both filter and electrlytics and i had to replace 2 resistors that were cracked. I made sure I sourced the correct ohm replacements.....
I'll have to dive into it a little more if these new tubes don't due the trick. This "Black Mink" project is sure putting my patients to the test. I'm not quite ready to give up on her just yet.
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Doug VanCleave
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Post subject: Re: RCA SHF-8 Gremlin strikes again... Posted: Apr Sun 29, 2012 2:25 pm |
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am Posts: 3523 Location: Berkley, Michigan
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Does it hum with the volume control all the way down? If it worked well at first, chances are that you didn’t make any wiring errors. To suddenly loose all audio and start humming at 60Hz seems like a dead short somewhere. If the output tubes are quickly getting hot, that indicates increased plate current through the tubes.
The act of replacing all of the capacitors in an amp creates a lot of conductive debris, little chunks of cut leads and beads of solder all over the place. I always pick up the chassis up a few inches and drop it back down on the bench a few times to dislodge any debris. It's amazing how much junk can fall out even if you have been careful to remove it as you work.
The 50C5 output tubes used in this amp have a tendency to become grid leaky to various amounts. Sometimes the problem doesn’t show up until the tube has been operating for five minutes or longer. The amp starts distorting then starts to hum. The tube draws more current, gets hotter and goes into a runaway condition.
_________________ That warm tube sound can usually be overcome by turning up the treble.
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Leland2
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Post subject: Re: RCA SHF-8 Gremlin strikes again... Posted: Apr Sun 29, 2012 4:09 pm |
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Joined: Aug Thu 05, 2010 7:26 pm Posts: 46 Location: Elk Grove, CA
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The 12Ax7 has a tendancy to become leaky. Due to it's high gain, it can create some really wierd sounding problems.
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bastardbus
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Post subject: Re: RCA SHF-8 Gremlin strikes again... Posted: May Tue 01, 2012 2:13 am |
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Joined: Jan Mon 25, 2010 7:51 am Posts: 1282 Location: Toledo, Ohio
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As Mr DVC mentioned and was kind enough to teach me early on, grid leakage is a big issue with these high voltage output tubes like the 35C5 and 50C5. I had a couple meticulously rebuilt RCA 45 players a 7HF45 and 8HF45 with 35C5s in push pull that where giving me odd hum issues when the volume was low a couple minutes after warm up. Some folks said that was the nature of the beast but I did not believe that. It wound up being grid leakage in the output tubes on both the amps. I installed different tubes with no grid leakage and the hum was completely gone and I mean quiet as a mouse! I check and grade every single 35C5 50C5 etc. tube for grid leakage and label them with their specs now. Check your grids...I bet you have a leaker! 
_________________ http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t167 ... onographs/
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dberman51
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Post subject: Re: RCA SHF-8 Gremlin strikes again... Posted: May Tue 01, 2012 5:49 pm |
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am Posts: 2311 Location: Boston, MA USA
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Perhaps even more common would be heater-to-cathode (H-K) leakage which high-voltage heater tubes like the 35C5 and 50C5 are prone to. This creates hum without the distortion of grid leakage, and would be heard as soon as the set warms up and begins to produce sound. The problem with H-K shorts is that a tube tester will not pick it up -- the only way is to try different tubes.
-David
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Larry Hillis
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Post subject: Re: RCA SHF-8 Gremlin strikes again... Posted: May Wed 02, 2012 12:40 am |
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Joined: Apr Wed 09, 2008 3:37 am Posts: 9669 Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
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tybox2000 wrote: I started the player and right away the humming began and by just wiggling the top of one the 50C5 power tubes I could get a different sound ever so slightly.
Here may be your problem. If the tubes are loose in their sockets, it can cause hum. Turn the set off, remove all the tubes, and go underneath and and take a pair of needlenose pliars and pinch almost shut all the tube pin sockets. This will make the tubes nice and tight in their sockets when you reinstall them. I always do this to every single amplifier I restore that has the miniature tubes. Also, spray out the tube pin sockets with clear tuner cleaner to clean the sockets. Take a brass brush and shine up the pins on each tube also. Finally, be sure all the tube pins are straight. All these things help make everything work right without problems. Also, did you spray out all the controls (volume, treble and bass) with clear tuner cleaner, working them back and forth as you sprayed? This is important too.
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