Okay, I want to find an inexpensive (under $50) vintage "add-on" phonograph to use with my 1936 console radio (I plan to add a phono input to it in the near future), but I have some questions:

1) What is the earliest COMMON phonograph that will play 78, 33, and 45 RPM records?
2) Can stereo records be played on a mono player without damaging the record or the stylus? I'd like to be able to play either one...

Am I being unrealistic as to what I am looking for and/or the price? Right now, all of my records are 33-1/3 RPM, mostly stereo, though I have a mono copy of Gary Lewis' "Everybody Loves A Clown" album. The local thrift store, however, has lots of 45's and some 78's too, I think, and I'd like to get started on some vintage vinyl (maybe shellac, too...?).

You have some decisions to make: 1) How "vintage?" 2) How gentle to records, esp stereo? 3) How inexpensive?

The most gentle to records would be a new turntable with magnetic cartridge and built-in pre-amp, or a small external preamp. Not vintage, and not $50.

The most "vintage" you could get would be a 1950-51 Webster-Chicago or VM 3-speed changer. Those would be the earliest 3-speed changers. The Webster-Chicago could be fixed up with a magnetic cartridge and would be sort of gentle to records but not as good as a modern turntable.

In the middle would be a late-'60s to '70s Garrard or Dual turntable. Maybe you could find a Garrard for $50, probably not the Dual which is significantly better. During the 1970s the 78-rpm speed began to disappear.

You can find lots of inexpensive turntables with stereo ceramic cartridges. These would be OK and would sound decent, but would not be as gentle to records as magnetic. Not terrible, though. It depends how much you value the records and want to preserve them. BSRs are common and decent, but many of the ones you would find no longer have the 78 rpm speed.

A 1936 turntable would be 78-rpm only with a heavy horse-shoe magnetic reproducer, hard on records.

-David

I have a few BSR turntables, if set up correctly and lubed they are good performers, gentle on records too.
If you want an old player that will work look for a BSR monarch.
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I have one and it will take a ceramic catridge and its easy on records.

Man I had that exact BSR. Tough as nails and easy to work on. When my wife and I moved from London, ON I left it with a huge stack of records over the spindle.

You're close to London, right........?? LOL

Eric

im just over an hours drive from London im in the tricity area.

Yep most BSR's are tuff as old nails, just suffer from the sticky lube but otherwise they run forever.

I know, I've been to Kitchener. (We're more like a 19 hour drive from there now, though)

I hope I run into another one of those though.

eric

Anybody got a spare one they'd care to part with...?

I do have this sitting spare.

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Garrard RC121 it works fine but needs a new catridge/stylus, only trouble is im in Canada and ive no idea how much it would cost to ship it.
If you where interested id find out.
It came out of a console i scrapped because of woodworm, but it does have it wood mounting board all you would have to do is make cabinet to hold it in.

PM sent...

I am a long-time fan of BSR turntables, not because they're high-fidelity, but because they're workhorses. If you remove all the gummed-up lubricant, and then carefully relube, they seem to go forever.

We repair lots of consoles, and often the original turntable requires some unobtainium part, or has been "hacked on" by someone who didn't have a clue, and so the original turntable won't be getting repaired -- at least not within the price range people are willing to pay. So, we restore a standard three-speed BSR, cut a new mounting board and stain it, use a saber saw to trim obstructing wood from the footprint for the old turntable, mount the new chassis, do minor rewiring on the power connector and signal cables -- and the problem is solved.

Unfortunately, the series of Garrards that were popular from the mid-1960's through the mid-1970's (for example the 40B and the turntables used in the KLH Twenty-Four) are experiencing dying motors. These motors will often NOT restore the usual way (clean and lube the bearings/resurface the rotor shafts). You'll do the service, but the fix won't last.

I've repaired Duals since 1972. The absolute best turntable Dual made until the 1218 came along was the 1019. The 1019 is capable of genuine high-fidelity, but of course you'll need a preamp. If you score on a 1019, PM or email me, and I'll give you some tips on restoration.

Good luck with this!

Fred
owner
Classic Audio Repair

What about the RC121 MkII mentioned above?

Those used a different motor. The RC series, type A, Lab 80 -- these used better motors. For some reason, after this, Garrard redesigned the motors on their lower-priced machines.

I've done some thinking about why the motors I mentioned in my post, above, have been failing. Here's what I've come up with. As Garrard moved into the mid and late sixties, they began to incorporate more inferior plastic in their motor designs. The stator as we know, consists of coils wound around a laminated core. Garrard began to use a flimsy plastic frame assembly to wind the coils around. Now, as plastic ages, it often warps and cracks. This is hastened by heat. So, my theory is that as the Garrard motor ages, it runs hotter, and the plastic portion of the coil assembly begins to warp. Effectively this reduces the close coupling of coil-to-core.

I've measured the coils on inductance meters, and "rung" the coils so see if there's a shorted turn, and the bad motors pass these tests. So, that's why my explanation is what it is.

The percentage of non-repairable motors for the models mentioned in my post, above, is greater than 50%!!!

Fred
Classic Audio Repair

The RC121 will give you no problems but its upto you
if you dont want it thats fine.

BTW i agree with comments on later Garrards, thats why BSR just go on forever they never used plastic parts in thier motors, they are reliable decks and mostly my deck of choice.
If i had a spare BSR id send you that but i dont.

The RC121 is friom 1957 the motor has no plastic parts, but like i say its upto you

I was just curious, when he mentioned Garrards going bad. I know very little about the differences between vintage phonographs - what's good, what's not, and why. But yes, I am interested in the RC121.